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  1. #21
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    the deal is that before sweden conquered finland, it was an independent country with its own language people etc. (history of finland goes to back to neanderthals, yes that is before the ice age and current people came here after the ice age, thats 9000bc). so even tho the country was under the order of some foreigners, the people were still finnish with our own language, culture and heritage. we even had our own currency when under russian and were an independent state. btw it was grand dutchy of finland, not russia :P . also napoleon didnt do anything but to give consent to russia to go in war against sweden and try to take finland away from them.
    The date of the final consolidation of Sweden is debatable. The mist does not clear until the 13th Century. Finland is already a solid part of Sweden by that date. There was never a country called Finland before the 19th Century.
    The Grand Duchy of Finland, of course. Not an independent state, but a part of the Russian empire.
    Napoleon only gave consent?

  2. #22
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wildcat View Post
    The date of the final consolidation of Sweden is debatable. The mist does not clear until the 13th Century. Finland is already a solid part of Sweden by that date. There was never a country called Finland before the 19th Century.
    The Grand Duchy of Finland, of course. Not an independent state, but a part of the Russian empire.
    Napoleon only gave consent?
    Long time ago, before the ice age, people lived in perfect harmony with the nature in a system that didn't give possibility for overpopulation. As the axis of the planet (plan-et) was in its right position, straight, all the planet was under stable tropical climate. So was also Odenmaa at the north pole. There lived the Asers who held the highest knowledge on earth with the ROT (root) -language. Outside Odenmaa lived the vaers in their ringlands. Everybody paid respect to Per who due to the breeding-system was the allfather of all mankind (everyone is a PER-SON). Over 50 milj. 10000 years ago the axis of the planet shifted and caused the ice age when the ringlands outside were covered by ice, a period called ALT-LAND-IS ALL LAND'S ICE. As the Gulfstream came to heat south-Finland, Odenmaa remained clear of ice and the Asers learned a new way of life. Agriculture and new animal species were created for staying alive for 50 milj. years surrounded by huge icebergs. As the ice started to melt and drown Odenmaa the very few of them left took pairs of the animals with them and sailed through a passage way melted by the stream to Bockland an island outside of Sweden, later named Goatland (Gotland). After staying there for a thousand years the Asers headed back to Odenmaa except SVEN and DAN who went to Sweden and Denmark to rehabit the ringlands. During ALTLANDIS the Vaners develloped into ten different races, mythologies and languages outside the icebergs. The asers lived in Odenmaa again till the year 1050 when the crusader army sent by the Pope destructed Odenmaa and created a new information
    system based on the written word not spoken as it used to be. This is a tiny part of a story that takes 20 years to tell
    two hours a day brought to us as familytradition by the last Aser since 1984, according to the saga 10 000 years after the end of the iceage.

    Napoleon was french, french and russians were allies and both were enemies of england and sweden was ally of england. Napoleon didnt have anything else with the war other than he said to russians that its in opinion ok to take finland from swedes.

    According to archaeological evidence, the area now comprising Finland was settled at the latest around 8500 BCE during the Stone Age as the ice sheet of the last ice age receded. The artifacts the first settlers left behind present characteristics that are shared with those found in Estonia, Russia and Norway.[17] The earliest people were hunter-gatherers, using stone tools.[18] The first pottery appeared in 5200 BCE when the Comb Ceramic culture was introduced.[19] The arrival of the Corded Ware culture in southern coastal Finland between 3000 and 2500 BCE may have coincided with the start of agriculture.[20] Even with the introduction of agriculture, hunting and fishing continued to be important parts of the subsistence economy.

    The Bronze Age (1500–500 BCE) and Iron Age (500 BCE–1200 CE) were characterised by extensive contacts with other cultures in the Fennoscandian and Baltic regions. There is no consensus on when Uralic languages and Indo-European languages were first spoken in the area of contemporary Finland. During the 1st millennium AD, early Finnish was spoken at least in agricultural settlements of Southern Finland, whereas Sámi-speaking populations occupied most parts of the country.
    I should add that there were people here even before ice age, but that was before homo sapiens times, so dunno if you can really count the neanderthals who lived here as original finnish people.

    And yes there wasnt any government that ran finland before 1249's when some swedish king thought that it would be a good idea to go tell the people who live there that technically king of sweden owns the lands, but you can continue doing your thing. nevertheless there was language, culture and people of the same origin living here(actually few different related cultures and people, like finnish, sami and some others).
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  3. #23
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    Long time ago, before the ice age, people lived in perfect harmony with the nature in a system that didn't give possibility for overpopulation. As the axis of the planet (plan-et) was in its right position, straight, all the planet was under stable tropical climate. So was also Odenmaa at the north pole. There lived the Asers who held the highest knowledge on earth with the ROT (root) -language. Outside Odenmaa lived the vaers in their ringlands. Everybody paid respect to Per who due to the breeding-system was the allfather of all mankind (everyone is a PER-SON). Over 50 milj. 10000 years ago the axis of the planet shifted and caused the ice age when the ringlands outside were covered by ice, a period called ALT-LAND-IS ALL LAND'S ICE. As the Gulfstream came to heat south-Finland, Odenmaa remained clear of ice and the Asers learned a new way of life. Agriculture and new animal species were created for staying alive for 50 milj. years surrounded by huge icebergs. As the ice started to melt and drown Odenmaa the very few of them left took pairs of the animals with them and sailed through a passage way melted by the stream to Bockland an island outside of Sweden, later named Goatland (Gotland). After staying there for a thousand years the Asers headed back to Odenmaa except SVEN and DAN who went to Sweden and Denmark to rehabit the ringlands. During ALTLANDIS the Vaners develloped into ten different races, mythologies and languages outside the icebergs. The asers lived in Odenmaa again till the year 1050 when the crusader army sent by the Pope destructed Odenmaa and created a new information
    system based on the written word not spoken as it used to be. This is a tiny part of a story that takes 20 years to tell
    two hours a day brought to us as familytradition by the last Aser since 1984, according to the saga 10 000 years after the end of the iceage.

    Napoleon was french, french and russians were allies and both were enemies of england and sweden was ally of england. Napoleon didnt have anything else with the war other than he said to russians that its in opinion ok to take finland from swedes.



    I should add that there were people here even before ice age, but that was before homo sapiens times, so dunno if you can really count the neanderthals who lived here as original finnish people.

    And yes there wasnt any government that ran finland before 1249's when some swedish king thought that it would be a good idea to go tell the people who live there that technically king of sweden owns the lands, but you can continue doing your thing. nevertheless there was language, culture and people of the same origin living here(actually few different related cultures and people, like finnish, sami and some others).
    Thank you for the interesting information.

    Much of what you say is true. The Saami occupied most of the country even at the time of the consolidation of Sweden. Finland was a tiny province around Turku. Finnish was also spoken on the banks of Kokemäenjoki, the route of the Tavastians from the shoreland of Satakunta to their present abode. Satakunta was an old Scandinavian province, a way older than Finland.

    Finland is an interesting subject of discussion, because their language is not European. It shows typological affinity with Korean and Japanese, there is also a genetic affiliation with these and many other East Asian peoples. Saami and Finnish descend from the same protolanguage.

    I always thought it was Napoleon who was the fast mover in Europe. He founded more fiefdoms and duchies than any person before or after him, in Europe. I thought he had more to do with the founding of Finland. After all, his pal Alexander treated the new-born Finns very fairly. I thought it had something to do with his preliminary talk with Napoleon, in Tilsit.

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