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  1. #91

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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    You didn't have to write any more than this. Time to start getting medieval then. I'm not being facetious either. It might actually be effective.
    No, I dont agree. If you read the post in its entirety, took some time to think about it, maybe read a little in the way of other opinions resembling what I had written you'd feel differently.

  2. #92
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    No, I dont agree. If you read the post in its entirety, took some time to think about it, maybe read a little in the way of other opinions resembling what I had written you'd feel differently.
    I'm not going feel differently about anything. There's nothing to feel to begin with. All I care about is an sustainable/efficient solution (to this crime, and to prisons in general). And like always, you're just a man of conviction. I'm not going to get anything else out of you other than "I'm mad about this." Good for you.

  3. #93

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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    I'm not going feel differently about anything. There's nothing to feel to begin with. All I care about is an sustainable/efficient solution (to this crime, and to prisons in general). And like always, you're just a man of conviction. I'm not going to get anything else out of you other than "I'm mad about this." Good for you.
    Well, your posts very quickly resort to projection, attribution and emoting for someone who only cares about a "sustainable/efficient solution", I could easily say that's all I'm interested in too and with some accuracy but you'll cling to this idea that I'm a "man of conviction" while you're a reasonable pundit, now whose ego does that flatter?

    I've spent a lot of time thinking about these topics dispassionately, I'd recommend you do too but I wouldnt bet on it, past experience being the best predictor or future experience and all.

  4. #94
    Retired Nicki's Avatar
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  5. #95
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I've spent a lot of time thinking about these topics dispassionately
    How did you manage that? You don't even live in this country.

    We can't even afford a postal service anymore, if you didn't know. Prisons are next.

    edit: Actually, that's not true. Education is next.

    In some states, it costs less to put someone through college for 4 years, than keeping someone imprisoned for one year. Great investment for the future. Exactly what are we getting out of it? If you want to keep people safe and deter crime, then there are better ways.

  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    How did you manage that? You don't even live in this country.

    We can't even afford a postal service anymore, if you didn't know. Prisons are next.

    I'm no economist, but i'm pretty sure we can afford a postal service.

  7. #97
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jontherobot View Post
    I'm no economist, but i'm pretty sure we can afford a postal service.
    I'm just being humorous.

    Although this article raises an important point about the wider issues of the incompetence behind getting their costs down.

  8. #98
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    In some states, it costs less to put someone through college for 4 years, than keeping someone imprisoned for one year. Great investment for the future. Exactly what are we getting out of it? If you want to keep people safe and deter crime, then there are better ways.
    Such as? Going Iran-style? The idea is, rehabilitate them.. but I don't know if you noticed, crime isn't rehabilitated by going back to the same place they were before. The cost of holding criminals is all on the states.. people don't think outside the box enough, plain as that. If you get creative, you can make anything work.

    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    Not that he would live this long, but... 105 yrs x $47k (avg prisoner cost in cali)= $4,935,000 in expenses.

    That's not protecting the public.

    There's no point to incarceration without a plan of rehabilitation (and integration back into society). If you don't accept that, save time and money and be like Iran then. Go balls out if you're supposedly so tough on crime. Have public amputations and hangings. What you're suggesting is just pointless, smug posturing at everyone else's expense.
    And where are you going to put these people that need rehabilitating, I ask again? Also, we pay people for disabilities.. Iran does not. Imagine the cost of paying for someone's inability to use their arm again for the rest of their lives. It's no better than putting them in prison.
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  9. #99
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    Such as? Going Iran-style? The idea is, rehabilitate them.. but I don't know if you noticed, crime isn't rehabilitated by going back to the same place they were before. The cost of holding criminals is all on the states.. people don't think outside the box enough, plain as that. If you get creative, you can make anything work.



    And where are you going to put these people that need rehabilitating, I ask again? Also, we pay people for disabilities.. Iran does not. Imagine the cost of paying for someone's inability to use their arm again for the rest of their lives. It's no better than putting them in prison.
    You misunderstand. I'm not necessarily advocating Iranian style policies. I'm saying that if you take stances like Lark's (that prison isn't for rehabilitation, that criminals are simply meant to be punished, that the public must be protected indefinitely), then the logical conclusion is Iranian/medieval justice. This way you fulfill the promise of coming down hard on crime and protecting the public - and accomplishing it in a sustainable way that doesn't cripple your economy. You can't take a hard stance on justice, and merely lock people up. It costs too much to hold all of these types of prisoners for that amount of time. Long term sentences should be pretty special cases - they're expensive. And they're just money sinks. They're not investments in any way (seeing that rehabilitation isn't emphasized, you're not getting a return from that prisoner in the form of useful labor or productive integration into society. You're just paying $50,000 a year for a man or woman to sit in a locked room and do nothing.). At least if you killed them off, you could invest that money elsewhere.

  10. #100
    Senior Member Bamboo's Avatar
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    Sorry slow getting back to this.

    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    The complication in my mind is whether he obtained the photos first, through hacking or other intrusive means, or whether they were voluntarily given to him. The article makes it sound like it was a bit of both. In the cases where they were obtained through intrusive means, then yes, he should be charged. If they were freely given to him first, even through usage of deceit, it becomes a muddier issue. Clearly he is engaging in intrusion and harassment. At the same time, if the pictures were freely given, it's not really fair to hold that against him.
    I'd agree, legally. Ethically is another story.

    People lie on the internet all the time, and lying in and of itself is not punishable by law.
    yep

    Like Salomé said, it wasn't even true identity theft; it was brief impersonation.
    I'm not sure about this, but ok. Wikipedia isn't a great source, but describes this as
    Identity theft is a form of stealing someone's identity in which someone pretends to be someone else by assuming that person's identity, typically in order to access resources or obtain credit and other benefits in that person's name.
    Sounds right to me, but most people think of it as a financial thing or a long term collection of social security payments or something like that.

    Most of us have impersonated someone during the course of our lives to get something minor we wanted. And, having been to college and having been friends with a few girls who are quite liberal in displaying their bodies on the internet, I have a hard time taking these charges quite so seriously. The extent to which the information was willingly given to him has an impact on lowering the gravity of the theft.
    Hmm. I disagree, on an ethical level and also a legal one.

    Let's say you go to the store and say "I'm here to pick up my package, I'm John Doe." And you're not John Doe. They hand you the package like nothing.

    Is that less theft? Less brazen, perhaps, but still theft. So what if a girl gives out titty pics like candy to her friends? Her tits, her friends. But legally speaking, I don't know what can be done in this case.

    As was voiced in the OP, there's no question that what he did was wrong and deserves punishment, but the nature of the exploitation doesn't seem proportionate to a more-than-life sentence in prison.
    Possibly. Seems like a lot.

    The blackmail / sexual harassment cases are the most bothersome to me, and that plus hacking is what I would charge him for.
    Blackmail/extortion is both the greater crime in my mind and the more readily prosecuted items, in addition to hacking, which is probably the easiest to prosecute.

    I wonder if there will be additional civil court trials. Not a legal expert.
    Don't know how much it'll bend til it breaks.

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