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Thread: Drill More Oil

  1. #11
    Glowy Goopy Goodness The_Liquid_Laser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jive A Turkey View Post
    Maybe I being naive and unyielding in my INFPness, but the talk and the caving into more drilling is pissing me off. Can't Americans take a little more tightening? Come on.
    If the Bush administration cared, they could have been aiding the development of alternative fuel sources and fuel efficient vehicles for the past eight years. Now that we've squandered the past eight years in terms of looking for energy options, we have to go for a more short term solution of getting oil from wherever we can.
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  2. #12
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Liquid_Laser View Post
    If the Bush administration cared, they could have been aiding the development of alternative fuel sources and fuel efficient vehicles for the past eight years. Now that we've squandered the past eight years in terms of looking for energy options, we have to go for a more short term solution of getting oil from wherever we can.
    We've had subsidies and tax breaks for ethanol, and they've done nothing but make food more expensive throughout the world. I hope to Buddha that the government stops trying to influence the energy markets. Drilling in ANWR or selling off the Strategic Reserve won't do anything demonstrable in the short-term. Giving subsidies to solar or hydrogen or whatever will just distort the market. If oil continues to rise in price, it will become economically imperative to switch to other energy sources. That needs to happen from market pressure. It's the only way it would not be very, very painful to consumers.
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  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    Giving subsidies to solar or hydrogen or whatever will just distort the market. If oil continues to rise in price, it will become economically imperative to switch to other energy sources. That needs to happen from market pressure. It's the only way it would not be very, very painful to consumers.
    A lot of the newer possible sources of energy need research and developement to be made effective enough to be more useful, plus there's the time it takes ot built up the infrastructure, startup costs, etc. This adds to the time it takes for other energy sources to be brought into action, simple "market action" will have trouble starting things up very quickly.

    Supporting the new energy sources can certainly be done in a better way (Ethanol from food plants is a very poor way to produce fuel, but there are other more effective possibilities out there.), but in order for things to happen quickly, some will most likely be needed.

  4. #14
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Ethanol is more or less a bone tossed to the ag lobby, isn't it?
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
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    Senior Member millerm277's Avatar
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    Having been to, and skied in Alaska, I would hate to see any more of it ruined by drilling. It is amazingly beautiful.

    More oil is not a solution to our current problems, it MIGHT help in 5-10 years, but probably will not provide a significant help. It'd be a much better idea to encourage better and cleaner ways of creating fuel/electricity.
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    Glowy Goopy Goodness The_Liquid_Laser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    We've had subsidies and tax breaks for ethanol, and they've done nothing but make food more expensive throughout the world. I hope to Buddha that the government stops trying to influence the energy markets. Drilling in ANWR or selling off the Strategic Reserve won't do anything demonstrable in the short-term. Giving subsidies to solar or hydrogen or whatever will just distort the market. If oil continues to rise in price, it will become economically imperative to switch to other energy sources. That needs to happen from market pressure. It's the only way it would not be very, very painful to consumers.
    Do you believe in externalities (positive or negative) or do you just not care?


    Quote Originally Posted by cafe
    Ethanol is more or less a bone tossed to the ag lobby, isn't it?
    Considering that the subsidies were passed when all three branches of the government were controlled by conservatives, you can bet on it.
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  7. #17
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Liquid_Laser View Post
    Do you believe in externalities (positive or negative) or do you just not care?
    Not sure what externalities have to do with government largesse, unless we're talking about unintended consequences (like ethanol making produce more expensive). Or are you making one of those "government started the Internet, so it also made people rich in the 1990s" arguments?

    BTW, I don't think I've ever heard people use the word "externalities" so much as I have in the past year. Was the concept explained in a movie or something? I've had a person tell me with a straight face that "corporations make the majority of their profits by passing along externalities to the rest of society." I was agog.


    Considering that the subsidies were passed when all three branches of the government were controlled by conservatives, you can bet on it.
    Agreed, but Democrats do the same exact thing for their constituents. Everyone still has this mental image of the "poor, hard-working farmer." Newsflash: American farmers have the highest percentage of millionaires of any job. Most of it is due to their owning large tracts of valuable land (as opposed to income from working it), but it's completely true. And of course, agribusiness gets the majority of the subsidies and tax breaks from the government, and it's disgusting.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

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    Senior Member htb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Priam View Post
    We're essentially setting ourselves up for more oil in five to ten years, not next week...
    I wish there were someone on the national level drawing attention to this, but: that's what they said five and ten years ago.

    To the general topic: what about vanships? Balloons?

  9. #19
    Content. Content? DigitalMethod's Avatar
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  10. #20
    Senior Member Jive A Turkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Liquid_Laser View Post
    If the Bush administration cared, they could have been aiding the development of alternative fuel sources and fuel efficient vehicles for the past eight years. Now that we've squandered the past eight years in terms of looking for energy options, we have to go for a more short term solution of getting oil from wherever we can.
    Well the administration really did make a significant investment in "energy options". I guess we'll find out how well it worked on the 30th when contract details between Iraq's Oil Ministry and Exxon Mobil/BP/Chevron/Shell unravel.

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