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  1. #261
    Senior Member Robopop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LevelZeroHero View Post
    Women's equality is like a bad math equation I've ran through my head so many times yet it still can never add up. When you boil it down it ends up weighing entirely on grossly unjustified self-entitlement along the lines of "I'm the queen of my life, that's why". Well, if you're the leading authority, why the need to protest anyone? You're not a monarchy and neither is anyone else, yet you get to push everyone around with your self-appointed right to authority. How is that fair and equal treatment?

    What gives, feminism? Since you can't add up, how do you justify using the label of equality? I demand equality from your [double-standard] sense of equality. I have a right to it, as you say.
    The traditional gender role system created privileges and discriminations between both sexes but feminism has mainly focused on women's historical perceived lack of agency and sexual objectification, this makes it a lot easier already to see females in the victim role. Men have historically been treated as more disposable, both by the government/military and through upbringing, there is generally less attention brought to this.

    A lot of feminist say that sexism against men is impossible because women have lacked the power to discriminate against men but this is not accurate when other factors are taken into account. In the deep south, from era of reconstruction after the civil war to the mid 1960s, black men faced lynching based on often false rape accusations of white women, in most of these cases the only witness was the white women herself and they fully participated in the torture and lynchings of black men(shooting them, cutting off their ears, burning them, ect).

    This is a prime example of systemic sexism and racism against men with women sharing a role as the perpetrators, these men were often powerless in the face of an angry mob wanting revenge for the violation of a white woman. Many white women took advantage of the negative racial/gender stereotypes of black men as violent, inherent rapist while on the opposite end white women were idealized as pure, beautiful, and morally upright. I was reading one feminist blog where she(the feminist) did a kind of historical revisionism to absolve the responsibility and agency of white women's roles in racism(and sexism), even going so far as to claim that the white women who initiated the lynchings were victims too, I thought that was really sick, especially coming from someone who claims to be fighting against all oppression.
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  2. #262
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Standuble View Post
    The only way for racism and sexism to die is for both sides to stop caring about it. Let gender pride and racial pride be confined to the dustbin of history where they belong. I think of both as the legacy of Fe (and inferior F in general) and perfectly represents the idiocy of both. In my mind sexism doesn't exist, if a man can cook or hover better than a woman can then I let the man do it. If a woman can do bricklaying or compile projections of company profits over the next twelve months better than a man can then I let the woman do it. Same with ethnic groups, I don't really care who does it, only if they can or not. If I ran a business I don't think I would be happy having to employ a woman or man for a role who does not seem cut out for the task over someone of the opposite gender who is better suited simply because "social values say you must."

    The second either side throws up the racism or sexism card then we're back to square one. My experience of this is that the "antagonist" in question has merely opted for using or employing one side over the other due to a case of limited exposure (e.g. not employing a woman simply merely because they are not personally aware of a woman who can or will do said task) instead of some some sort of conspiracy.
    And why are they not aware of a woman who can do said task? Perhaps because many women who could do the task, or learn to do the task, were raised from babyhood to think that task is "men's work". Same goes for men cooking and working with kids. The problem isn't that men or women can't do this or that, it's that many are raised with gender-biased perspectives on what to do with their lives. That is the root of sexism, and to ignore it is to allow its perpetuation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bamboo View Post
    Benevolent justifications for discrimination (e.g., "Women should forego a career because they excel at childcare") are more likely to be accepted than hostile justifications (e.g., "Women should forego a career because they lack ability"). Whereas women are more likely than men to reject hostile sexism, they often endorse benevolent sexism -- especially in countries high in hostile sexism, where male protection is most appealing. Ironically, it may be that high levels of hostile sexism among men lead to high levels of benevolent sexism among women.
    Even more insidious are statements like: "We need to promote greater flexibility in the workplace so women are more able to spend time with their children/families." The implication is that women want/need this and men don't; that child/dependent care is still the primary responsibility of women, and they will sacrifice career values for it. How about workplace flexibility for parents, or just plain humans? How about setting up home life so women can give a career the attention it deserves?

    Quote Originally Posted by fia View Post
    I haven't had a chance to finish reading the thread, and so far most aspects of the topic have been covered. The premise is unfounded - that women are not offering equal behavior. The premise sounds a bit like a sibling or junior high school fight between boys and girls who are on more equal footing and don't fully grasp the history and big picture of the topic.
    But women are not offering equal behavior. Too many women still fall in with the stereotypes, and expect less from themselves than they are capable of. This cheats them, and everyone around them.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  3. #263
    movin melodies kiddykat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LevelZeroHero View Post
    Women's equality is like a bad math equation I've ran through my head so many times yet it still can never add up. When you boil it down it ends up weighing entirely on grossly unjustified self-entitlement along the lines of "I'm the queen of my life, that's why". Well, if you're the leading authority, why the need to protest anyone? You're not a monarchy and neither is anyone else, yet you get to push everyone around with your self-appointed right to authority. How is that fair and equal treatment?

    What gives, feminism? Since you can't add up, how do you justify using the label of equality? I demand equality from your [double-standard] sense of equality. I have a right to it, as you say.
    You seem to generalize a whole movement based on your specific (angry and frustrating) encounters with the women in your life.

    Not ALL women are feminists. In fact, some women are adamantly opposed to feminism and still walk around with a sense of entitlement as you describe. Maybe both parties who ascribe to the attitude of misogyny deserve each other.

    Blaming women for centuries of oppression and then claiming a sense of "self-entitlement" seems to highlight your own agenda. And, maybe stop dating the types of women who make you feel the way you do. Stop pointing the finger and take some responsibility for your own self. How's that for equality?

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