User Tag List

First 152324252627 Last

Results 241 to 250 of 263

  1. #241
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    1,153

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    You'd be slightly more convincing if you hadn't just got finished rattling out the oldest sexist trope in the history of dumb, old, sexist tropery. Try Harder.

    Maybe it's time for you to move out of your mum's basement and become familiar with the real world?
    My mother doesn't have a basement. Anyway I wouldn't of called that an old sexist trope but a tired old stereotype about a biological process. But like I said sexism doesn't exist for me simply because the gender of the contributor isn't really one of my concerns, I don't really care whether a man or woman fulfills what task like I said above, more that its in whoever has the best hands. Caring about something like that when a task I deem important needs completing just seems idiotic.

  2. #242
    meh Salomé's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx/sp
    Posts
    10,540

    Default

    ...said the middle-class white essex boy, while his Mummy made him eggy soldiers and a nice cup of tea.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  3. #243
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    isfp
    Enneagram
    4w5 sp/sx
    Posts
    8,586

    Default

    I haven't had a chance to finish reading the thread, and so far most aspects of the topic have been covered. The premise is unfounded - that women are not offering equal behavior. The premise sounds a bit like a sibling or junior high school fight between boys and girls who are on more equal footing and don't fully grasp the history and big picture of the topic.

    In dynamics of social oppression, there can be instances of overcompensation, but those instances do not define the whole. I know of one especially conservative, sexist religious system here in the U.S. in which I happen to observe some women obtain a level of intense psychological dominance. The motivation for a fixation on control often comes from a feeling of lacking power. So individual instances of obsession with dominance can actually demonstrate an oppressive and powerless context for that individual rather than the reverse.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

    I want to be just like my mother, even if she is bat-shit crazy.

  4. #244
    meh Salomé's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx/sp
    Posts
    10,540

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    Well, yeah italian males are accustomed to being more forward with females in order to at least get a date. There's a north-south gradient in this matter too, but the difference from northern europe is clear. On the other hand, I kind of sometimes feel like my northern friends are not really giving enough attention to their girlfriends. But, perhaps, those girlfriend would not enjoy more attention either. Hard to know. I don't have any experience with these dynamics in a work setting because...I never worked in an Italian office (I moved right after graduation).

    You should really not consider Berlsconi and his friends as representatives for the *standard* vision of women we have, IMHO.
    "Paying attention to your girlfriend" is not sexual harassment.
    Sexual harassment is riding a crowded sweaty bus through Tuscany, with an unabashed stranger's dick in the small of your back.
    One of the many perks of Italian public transport.

    The fact that Berlusconi can get re-elected, says quite a lot.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  5. #245
    Senior Member Bamboo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    MBTI
    XXFP
    Posts
    2,706

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    More of them are committing to college than men.

    More of them are employed out of college than men.

    How this doesn't translate to higher average pay escapes me.

    The pressures you mentioned aren't keeping them from outpacing men in every category.

    From the bureau of labor statistics: COLLEGE ENROLLMENT AND WORK ACTIVITY OF 2011 HIGH SCHOOL GRADUATES

    The numbers, it would seem, conflict with your assertion.
    Quote Originally Posted by Randomnity View Post
    It's escaping you because you're assuming that the post-college career paths are identical for men and women on average - in terms of promotions, job titles, pay, etc. This is not just an unsupported assumption - it is actually well-known to be false. And there is no evidence that the situation is improving, either.

    As a very basic example which comes to mind (one of many many studies out there, if you search), here is a recent study from a very reputable journal showing that when new science grads applied to jobs with identical applications other than male/female names, the men's applications were better rated, offered more opportunities, and offered significantly higher salaries (which can dramatically alter lifetime salary, since raises are often a percentage of current salary). Again, literally identical applications, no negotiation, no interview, applying to identical jobs, etc.

    This is not even close to being unusual, unfortunately.
    I liked reading reading this, thanks for posting both. It brings up the question: what is the source of the persistent inequality, and it tries to narrow it down beyond just "misogyny." Are women being discouraged from entering fields, or are they not being hired in fields, and to what extent does this effect things. (edit: yes, disco is right to point out that this was a study in a science and more data is needed to see if this is across all fields. i personally had trouble finding a recent study that showed this that i could actually open that didn't focus on minority groups in paticular but maybe other searchers will fare better) Male or female reviewers both tended to see females as less qualified.

    I liked how they pointed out that people who outwardly extoll equality may be unaware of the subtle ways that prejudice works. Humans are full of biases. I really believe that unless you learn about those biases you're just going to be doomed to follow them - they are the default human state.

    I also like how they point out that likability is not the same as recognizing competency.


    ---


    I'm not a statistician so I'll admit a lot of the minutia details flew over my head, but something in the citations caught my eye and other people might want to read.

    Glick, P., & Fiske, S. T. (1996). The ambivalent sexism inventory: Differentiating hostile and benevolent sexism. Journal of Personality and Social Psychology,

    Simple explanation:
    http://www.understandingprejudice.org/asi/faq

    I think this is a valuable distinction to make, and I agree with the concept, though I find myself disagreeing with how they measure it to some extent, which assumes that seeing feminism in a certain light is hostility toward women, a view that might vary dependent on if you see feminism, as a whole, as representing all women.

    But I think this says a lot:
    Benevolent justifications for discrimination (e.g., "Women should forego a career because they excel at childcare") are more likely to be accepted than hostile justifications (e.g., "Women should forego a career because they lack ability"). Whereas women are more likely than men to reject hostile sexism, they often endorse benevolent sexism -- especially in countries high in hostile sexism, where male protection is most appealing. Ironically, it may be that high levels of hostile sexism among men lead to high levels of benevolent sexism among women.
    Study PDF:
    http://fancysavingtheworld.com/World...ke%202001).pdf
    Don't know how much it'll bend til it breaks.

  6. #246
    Retired Nicki's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    1,512

    Default

    What are your thoughts on "slut" shaming? I've been reading the last few pages of this thread and I found them very interesting.
    I really like cats and food.

  7. #247
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    1,153

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    ...said the middle-class white essex boy, while his Mummy made him eggy soldiers and a nice cup of tea.
    Yes, yes. Because dipping bits of bread inside a soft-boiled egg and having ever-so-slightly more income than breadline makes my point of view naive and incorrect I suppose?

    I'm going to be honest with you here and I know how you come across to others is not your concern. But you have been nothing short of completely repulsive and completely illogical. A deplorable testatement to humanity if I've ever seen one. Drop the inferior-Fe routine and excessive sarcasm. You're more tolerable and intelligent when you just stick to the Ti.

    I won't contribute to this thread anymore and I'm going to leave this site for a while just in case I cross paths with you again which isn't a prospect I'm too thrilled about.

  8. #248
    Senior Member Bamboo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    MBTI
    XXFP
    Posts
    2,706

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by fia View Post
    I haven't had a chance to finish reading the thread, and so far most aspects of the topic have been covered. The premise is unfounded - that women are not offering equal behavior. The premise sounds a bit like a sibling or junior high school fight between boys and girls who are on more equal footing and don't fully grasp the history and big picture of the topic.

    In dynamics of social oppression, there can be instances of overcompensation, but those instances do not define the whole. I know of one especially conservative, sexist religious system here in the U.S. in which I happen to observe some women obtain a level of intense psychological dominance. The motivation for a fixation on control often comes from a feeling of lacking power. So individual instances of obsession with dominance can actually demonstrate an oppressive and powerless context for that individual rather than the reverse.
    I think this is a nice succinct explanation of overcompensation, which I'd say *does not* define everyone who wishes to push against the status quo.

    And I'd agree that a need for dominance may demonstrate a real or I'd add at times perceived lack of power. A sort of reaction formation.

    However, I think that whether motivated by insecurity or by an actual malicious desire to control others, I think the effects can be just as detrimental to progress for all groups. In part because these groups tend to create a stir, and not in the good way that social change depends on.

    Perhaps the answer to all of this is to simply empower those groups to get rid of the insecurity which is causing the overcompensation - but in the short term, I'm a little bit lost as to what a good solution is. Maybe ignoring is the best solution, but I feel like that in turn can and does make people feel even less empowered/more militant (edit: and potentially shuts out people who are having real problems). What helps people who are used to feeling powerless be empowered without being dominating?
    Don't know how much it'll bend til it breaks.

  9. #249
    insert random title here Randomnity's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    MBTI
    ISTP
    Enneagram
    6w5 sp/sx
    Posts
    9,489

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Standuble View Post
    I was playing devil's advocate. It's all a thread like this is really that good for anyway.

    However I was being serious about the end part. The only way for racism and sexism to die is for both sides to stop caring about it. Let gender pride and racial pride be confined to the dustbin of history where they belong. I think of both as the legacy of Fe (and inferior F in general) and perfectly represents the idiocy of both. In my mind sexism doesn't exist, if a man can cook or hover better than a woman can then I let the man do it. If a woman can do bricklaying or compile projections of company profits over the next twelve months better than a man can then I let the woman do it. Same with ethnic groups, I don't really care who does it, only if they can or not. If I ran a business I don't think I would be happy having to employ a woman or man for a role who does not seem cut out for the task over someone of the opposite gender who is better suited simply because "social values say you must."

    The second either side throws up the racism or sexism card then we're back to square one. My experience of this is that the "antagonist" in question has merely opted for using or employing one side over the other due to a case of limited exposure (e.g. not employing a woman simply merely because they are not personally aware of a woman who can or will do said task) instead of some some sort of conspiracy.
    Ok, my bad, I thought you were serious. Usually my sarcasm meter is more accurate. Disregard, then.
    -end of thread-

  10. #250
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    MBTI
    ENTJ
    Enneagram
    7w8
    Socionics
    ENTj
    Posts
    5,908

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    "Paying attention to your girlfriend" is not sexual harassment.
    Sexual harassment is riding a crowded sweaty bus through Tuscany, with an unabashed stranger's dick in the small of your back.
    One of the many perks of Italian public transport.
    I doubt that is a common (or even rare, for the matter) event.
    ENTj 7-3-8 sx/sp

Similar Threads

  1. Guns ARE equal rights.
    By SpankyMcFly in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 294
    Last Post: 06-28-2016, 10:08 AM
  2. Replies: 8
    Last Post: 08-11-2013, 11:20 PM
  3. Replies: 11
    Last Post: 01-13-2011, 03:32 PM
  4. Catholic ban on women priests 'illegal under Harriet Harman equality bill'
    By Sniffles in forum Philosophy and Spirituality
    Replies: 126
    Last Post: 01-14-2010, 06:59 AM
  5. UK Lesbians Given Equal Birth Rights
    By 01011010 in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 09-01-2009, 04:02 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO