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  1. #221
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    I can flick people's ears with a degree of finesse. Why haven't my combat boots been polished yet?

  2. #222
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Because you're lazy and ineffectual, one imagines.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  3. #223
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    Because you're lazy and ineffectual, one imagines.
    Perhaps, perhaps not. I don't see what laziness and levels of effectiveness have to do with it. You could be the most productive person in the world but see such tasks as beneath you. You then delegate it to another. How am I supposed to usher in a new era for humanity when I have to wash up dishes or clean the toilet? Creating butterfly reprecussions via macro-historic events (do they even exist?) is what men do best. Cooking and cleaning is what women do best. Any notion that the two roles could be mixed or reversed is laughable and needs to be stamped out of existence.

    So stop this feminist nonsense.

  4. #224
    Senior Member Bamboo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    When did this become my problem to solve? Has anyone suggested anything in this thread? Have you? No and No.
    Well, I'd say that part of the process is going to be having discussions which clue people into what's going on without scaring them off from discussions at all. It's been a few days, I was out of town so I couldn't reply to you, but that's pretty much the crux of what I'd advocate. Apparently I'm too much of a self-righteous ass sometimes for that message to get across, but I think that getting people to talk without feeling threatened is a good first step - otherwise people just ignore and don't change. Of course, some people's egos are so enormous that they don't want to be criticized (they truly believe they have the answers), but I'll point out that a desire to shred arguments is a good one! An exchange of ideas without criticism is a waste of time.

    I think most people who have any sense of humility see the value in critical feedback, but if the criticism is paired with personal attacks or insinuations or any other trigger ...well, people turn off, don't listen, ignore, get combative, get butthurt and things turn into a clusterfuck. And while the answers will be *hard* to reach with discussions and changing people's perspectives, they will almost certainly be *impossible* to reach within a shitstorm.

    Something you said earlier:
    To end on a more positive note: the world's happiest countries are consistently those which lead the pack when it comes to gender equality. Equality for women makes everyone happier/better off. One does not need to be a feminist to recognise the truth of that.
    I think this is a valuable insight. For the most part, with a few exceptions, I think everyone here is interested in advancing gender equality in some way, though how to do that isn't always obvious.

    It's alien to me. As an INTP, failing to care what others think comes quite naturally. But how does one teach a bunch of (mostly) Fs how to stop caring?
    Well, I'm not going to buy that you don't care at all unless you're a sociopath or something. Having emotion isn't weakness, c'mon, you're in this thread talking to people, I sort of doubt it's just cause you're bored and you have no personal interest in talking about it. Emotions are the basis of motivation - but they can be directed with thought. But I don't think it's about not caring or not having emotions. Heterosexuals form bonds across genders. Being desirable in some way is something that everyone who wants a partner wants.

    I'm not gonna get on board with 'mass lesbianism' any time soon, but shifting the way both genders think about their own desirability and what is desirable is probably a step in the right direction.
    Don't know how much it'll bend til it breaks.

  5. #225
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    My solutions are far too radical for this audience. I don't believe the problem will ever be solved, because most people are content with the status quo. And if they are, then who am I to tell them how to live? That's not my style. Exposing bullshit is my contribution to this debate.
    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    Please, develop your ideas. No one is stopping you.
    I could have let you save face with your back-pedalling exercise and attempts at finding common ground. That would have been more generous of me.
    Alas, not really my style.
    And no one is stopping you, but yourself. It is unfortunate that you seem to lack the confidence to develop your own ideas here (some of your observations have potential), and instead settle for sniping at other people, or posting empty drivel like the example above. The problem won't be solved if people with good solutions keep them hidden under the proverbial bushel basket.

    My style is to envision something better, and take action to realize it. I won't claim to have *the* solution, but I have *a* solution. It is how I have lived my own life. I have pursued my education and career, relationships, hobbies and lifestyle, everything - in a way that reflects as closely as possible the gender-neutral environment I wish to see. I have ignored the expectations, questioned the assumptions, and in fact assumed that I will be able to do, get, or have what I desire. I ask how I can obtain something, not whether, and I nearly always get it. I will admit, I have also been very lucky.

    We can lobby for legislative change, promote diversity initiatives at work and school, reach out to young people, etc. - and we should do these things (my volunteer efforts focus on it). As the saying goes, however, we must be the change we want to see in the world, and that starts with our own life and example.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  6. #226
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    Your threats are impotent.
    You make it plain you intend to continue with your insults and bullying. And it is obvious you want to pick a fight.

    And you will find those here who want to fight with you.

    I believe the rules are there to avoid such acting out, and in due course the rules will be enforced.

  7. #227
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bamboo View Post
    Well, I'm not going to buy that you don't care at all unless you're a sociopath or something. Having emotion isn't weakness, c'mon, you're in this thread talking to people, I sort of doubt it's just cause you're bored and you have no personal interest in talking about it.
    Woah. Settle down. What I said is that I don't care what other people think. And I don't. I even don't care whether or not you believe me. I am bored. Very, very, very bored with the way debates go on this clusterfuck of a forum, which is a microcosm of this clusterfuck of a planet.
    The problem isn't going to be solved in this thread or on this forum. Hate to break it to you, but thems the facts.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    And no one is stopping you, but yourself. It is unfortunate that you seem to lack the confidence to develop your own ideas here (some of your observations have potential), and instead settle for sniping at other people, or posting empty drivel like the example above. The problem won't be solved if people with good solutions keep them hidden under the proverbial bushel basket.
    Pearls/swine. But at least I understand the nature and severity of the problem and am consistent in exposing it / raising awareness. Which is more than I can say for you. Your approach is very much "I'm alright, Jack". Well done, you can go back to trying to fit into that little black dress now.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  8. #228
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    Why is this thread still going? The only way both parties would be satisfied would be to segregate tasks. Men have their responsibilities and women have theirs and avoid crossover where possible. Men have their boardroom and women have their kitchen. There would be too much/not enough if you start trying to mix the brew and the broth will always be detestable to someone's tongue as a result.

    Or you could just stick your head in the sand. If you don't care then what's the problem? Even if you achieve "equality" it won't last. The scales want to tip in favour of one or the other unless both sides reach a stalemate to the tune of "Fuck this! I don't care anymore!" from both sides.

  9. #229
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Bored with your shtick now.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  10. #230
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    Bored with your shtick now.
    Maybe I wasn't even talking to you specifically? You may be better off leaving this forum entirely as all you do is rage about with inferior-Fe flying everywhere. For one you claim not to care yet emulate the fanatic quite well when it comes to women's rights. It's interesting.

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