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  1. #11
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    (And as much I hate to say this because it can be a thread-destroying comment, modern day feminists - instead of equalists, so to speak - seem very comfortable with double standards that benefit them. It is very hard to have a dialogue about that, however.)
    With feminists as well as with people who align themselves to different points in that topic, I find it to be one of the very hardest to have a dialogue about.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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    Live and let live will just amount to might makes right

  2. #12
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    Hint: even men have all generally "equal rights" but they vastly differ in "behavior".
    ENTj 7-3-8 sx/sp

  3. #13
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LevelZeroHero View Post
    Women's equality is like a bad math equation I've ran through my head so many times yet it still can never add up. When you boil it down it ends up weighing entirely on grossly unjustified self-entitlement along the lines of "I'm the queen of my life, that's why". Well, if you're the leading authority, why the need to protest anyone? You're not a monarchy and neither is anyone else, yet you get to push everyone around with your self-appointed right to authority. How is that fair and equal treatment?

    What gives, feminism? Since you can't add up, how do you justify using the label of equality? I demand equality from your [double-standard] sense of equality. I have a right to it, as you say.
    Equation is a balance. It means add-up is zero.
    Look at gravity. A bend in space? It looks like it. But it is only the counter-bend.
    Feminism is a counter-bend, too. Only your math is lopsided.

  4. #14
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wildcat View Post
    Only your math is lopsided.
    Pithily put, as ever.

    These incoherent rants are difficult to follow because they demonstrate a shocking failure of basic logic. Proving both that emotion always triumphs over logic (destroying it in the process) and that Ti doms do not have any particular gift in that direction (more often than not, the ranter is an ISTP male).

    Anyway...it was the 1872 that grabbed my attention. I found out recently (with some measure of disbelief) that Cambridge didn't admit women until 1972. 100 years to break down the first gate to the old boys' network. One hopes, by 2072, that we will have made some progress towards equal pay for equal work. Or indeed, equal work, period.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  5. #15
    Senior Member UniqueMixture's Avatar
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    For all that we have done, as a civilization, as individuals, the universe is not stable, and nor is any single thing within it. Stars consume themselves, the universe itself rushes apart, and we ourselves are composed of matter in constant flux. Colonies of cells in temporary alliance, replicating and decaying and housed within, an incandescent cloud of electrical impulses. This is reality, this is self knowledge, and the perception of it will, of course, make you dizzy.

  6. #16
    78% me Eruca's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    Men have been strangely slow to take advantage of the highlighted. The OP is right in that, for women to expect equal rights, they must also accept equal responsibility. Women have long realized that their exclusion from many roles and duties has served only to relegate them to the status of children: less capable, less intelligent, weaker, less responsible, more fragile and sensitive and needing protection. The lie of this is made plain with great eloquence in Sojourner Truth's famous Ain't I a Woman speech.

    I do know women, unfortunately, who will not shoulder their share of adult responsibility. Not surprisingly, few of these would consider themselves feminists, and most are content to rely on men to support and direct them. They give women a bad name and reinforce the needless limitations confronting both men and women.
    As long as the excuse to not shoulder adult responsibility is there, somebody will take advantage of it. Ideally we should erode the situation that provides an excuse. Feminism has allowed women to work within "harder", more powerful roles, to have responsibility. Now a male-led movement needs to push for men to be able to not always have responsibility, not to have to take the lead, to be the nurturer/supporter rather than the leader and provider. Feminism has been pushing, and now a male-led movement needs to be pulling. This is what is needed to have equal rights between the genders.

    It is, however, no surprise this is not the form the growing internet mens rights movement is taking. Who wants to fight for the right to do the lame jobs? To not be important? To not have high status? To be *gasp* feminine? Instead they lash out blindly at feminism and women's rights, basing it all on their vague (but true) feelings that they are getting a raw deal.
    I hope I'm wrong, but I believe that he is a fraud, and I think despite all of his rhetoric about being a champion of the working class, it will turn out to be hollow -- Bernie Sanders on Trump

  7. #17
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    It only sounds like a bad idea until you consider the alternative.

  8. #18
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eruca View Post
    It is, however, no surprise this is not the form the growing internet mens rights movement is taking. Who wants to fight for the right to do the lame jobs? To not be important? To not have high status? To be *gasp* feminine? Instead they lash out blindly at feminism and women's rights, basing it all on their vague (but true) feelings that they are getting a raw deal.
    The MRA brigade are piss poor competition. *sigh* They are always so dumb and incoherent that they manage to make the case against themselves so thoroughly no further rebuttal is required. I would really love to see this position supported by someone intelligent and thoughtful. If that were not a contradiction in terms...
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  9. #19
    78% me Eruca's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    The MRA brigade are piss poor competition. *sigh* They are always so dumb and incoherent that they manage to make the case against themselves so thoroughly no further rebuttal is required. I would really love to see this position supported by someone intelligent and thoughtful. If that were not a contradiction in terms...
    I think you underestimate them a little. They will likely continue to grow in online spaces. What their perceptions/beliefs lack in terms of truth they make up for in terms of appeal. And they are surprisingly good at hiding their crazy in PR situations by putting on a more presentable public face.

    Conventional wisdom is that a movement cannot move anything without stepping out into the real world. Once they leave online spaces, I agree they will be severely disadvantaged by their internal incoherence and the fervor of some of their member's.

    I agree I would love to see a men's rights movement about men's equality, not about anti-women's equality.
    I hope I'm wrong, but I believe that he is a fraud, and I think despite all of his rhetoric about being a champion of the working class, it will turn out to be hollow -- Bernie Sanders on Trump

  10. #20
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    I don't think many who would call themselves feminists subscribe to the thought that their position is superior in any way.


    Maybe some, but certainly no more than a few.


    I presume this line of thought is some sort of masked sexism, projection, confirmation bias or one of those pop-terms.

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