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  1. #31
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    They both have very strong mechanisms to prevent corrution. The article does not say that they both achieve the lowest levels of corruption worldwide.
    ENTj 7-3-8 sx/sp

  2. #32
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Yes, Germany is 'free from corruption', and there are not many Jews, either.

    Coincidence?

  3. #33
    Senior Member Eckhart's Avatar
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    Did you know Germany is one of few countries like North Korea, Syria etc. who didn't ratificate the UN convention against corruption after all that years? The government's excuse is it would restrict them in their work too much - I wonder why... Ok, you can say those conventions are not worth the paper usually anyway, and that is probably true, but it is interesting that Germany refuses to ratify it then still.

    And if you follow politics in Germany (after all I live here) you will know that corruption is daily reality here. Ok, they have hard regulations for people in the low food chain - like the garbage collectors may not accept presents even on christmas which are worth more than 10 Euro. A government politican however may do and accept whatever he wants, and you will find tons of examples where they do. You just have to follow the media here, because they don't even make a big secret out of it when they find out about another case again. The politicians also keep their posts. Probably that is why people feel they cannot do anything about it and don't act. If you want to see an example for a politican of our current government, do some research about our finance minister Schäuble, it is not hard to find.

    Now, I guess this sounds like stuff happening in any other country, although I can only speak from experience mostly in my own country, but that is all I want to show, that Germany is nothing special in that regard (at least not in a positive way). Saying Germany is free of corruption is either propaganda or coming from someone who has no clue about what is happening here.

  4. #34
    Cheeseburgers freeeekyyy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    Only two countries in the entire world are free from corruption. They are Australia and Germany.

    Is Australia the Germany of the South, while Germany is the Australia of the North?

    Read what the Wall Street Journal has to say about Germany and Australia by clicking on - http://blogs.wsj.com/corruption-curr...fense-sectors/

    Or read the report from Reuters by clicking on - http://news.yahoo.com/governments-fa...020419055.html
    If you think Germany and Australia are free from corruption, you've deluded yourself. No state, and no person in fact, is free of corruption. It's human nature.
    You lose.

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  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    Only two countries in the entire world are free from corruption. They are Australia and Germany.
    Awwwwwwww......Victor misses @Red Herring.

  6. #36
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    I have recently been pondering the idea that the level of corruption, rather than the form of government may determine whether or not a country is a good place for the majority of its citizens. Don't know enough about the idea yet, but it seems possible.

    I am sure that even Germany and Australia have corruption, but perhaps they have less than many places? Or maybe the form it takes is less harmful? I don't know. Obviously some places do have more corruption than others. By my standards, the US is pretty darn corrupt. Certainly not the most corrupt, but there is a lot of money passing hands to buy unfair advantages, often done legally. It has become a feature of our system, rather than a bug. I think things would be better if we could find some ways to address it and maybe there are things other countries do that help combat this tendency. It'd be worth looking into.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  7. #37
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Transparency International

    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    I think things would be better if we could find some ways to address it and maybe there are things other countries do that help combat this tendency. It'd be worth looking into.
    Yes, dear cafe, we are addressing corruption internationally with Transparency International. If we keep on eye out in the newspapers, we can read their regular reports.

    To see Transparency International click on - http://www.transparency.org/

    You may contact your national chapter of Transparency International at -

    USA National chapter
    1023 15th Street, NW
    Suite 300,
    Washington, DC 20005

    Telephone: +1-202-589 1616
    Fax: +1-202-589 1512
    Email: transparency@transparency-usa.org
    Website: http://www.transparency-usa.org/

    Join the Conversation
    Below you'll find various social channels that you can connect with.

    Contact Person
    Mrs Claudia J Dumas
    President.

  8. #38
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eckhart View Post
    Did you know Germany is one of few countries like North Korea, Syria etc. who didn't ratificate the UN convention against corruption after all that years? The government's excuse is it would restrict them in their work too much - I wonder why... Ok, you can say those conventions are not worth the paper usually anyway, and that is probably true, but it is interesting that Germany refuses to ratify it then still.

    And if you follow politics in Germany (after all I live here) you will know that corruption is daily reality here. Ok, they have hard regulations for people in the low food chain - like the garbage collectors may not accept presents even on christmas which are worth more than 10 Euro. A government politican however may do and accept whatever he wants, and you will find tons of examples where they do. You just have to follow the media here, because they don't even make a big secret out of it when they find out about another case again. The politicians also keep their posts. Probably that is why people feel they cannot do anything about it and don't act. If you want to see an example for a politican of our current government, do some research about our finance minister Schäuble, it is not hard to find.

    Now, I guess this sounds like stuff happening in any other country, although I can only speak from experience mostly in my own country, but that is all I want to show, that Germany is nothing special in that regard (at least not in a positive way). Saying Germany is free of corruption is either propaganda or coming from someone who has no clue about what is happening here.
    If you are worried about corruption in Germany, you might like to contact your national chapter of Transparency International at -

    Transparency International Deutschland

    Alte Schönhauser Str. 44
    D- 10119 Berlin
    Deutschland

    Telephone: +49 30 549 898 0
    Fax: +49 30 5498 9822
    Email: office@transparency.de
    Website: http://www.transparency.de/

    Join the Conversation
    Below you'll find various social channels that you can connect with.

    Contact person
    Dr Christian Humborg
    Managing Director

  9. #39
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    It'd be nice if it was true, but human nature is corrupt. Borders and country labels mean little.

    Human nature can also be naive, like in your case.
    Border and country is not a label.

  10. #40
    Cheeseburgers freeeekyyy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    I have recently been pondering the idea that the level of corruption, rather than the form of government may determine whether or not a country is a good place for the majority of its citizens. Don't know enough about the idea yet, but it seems possible.

    I am sure that even Germany and Australia have corruption, but perhaps they have less than many places? Or maybe the form it takes is less harmful? I don't know. Obviously some places do have more corruption than others. By my standards, the US is pretty darn corrupt. Certainly not the most corrupt, but there is a lot of money passing hands to buy unfair advantages, often done legally. It has become a feature of our system, rather than a bug. I think things would be better if we could find some ways to address it and maybe there are things other countries do that help combat this tendency. It'd be worth looking into.
    I don't think that's really a problem with "the system," that's a problem with the people electing the wrong representatives, and not holding them responsible for their actions when they accept corporate donations, etc. It's important that the people, (and that includes organizations of people) be able to petition the government for grievances. But the representatives need to be held responsible when they respond to and accept the wrong kind of "petitioning." Trying to legally define what is and isn't allowed though makes the government less sensitive to the needs and demands of the people. We need more powerful watchdog groups, not legislation.
    You lose.

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