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  1. #1
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Default The Student Loan Bubble

    At first when @Giggly mentioned it in another thread, I thought it was funny but then as I thought about it more, I began to realize it wasn't. What do you think about this and how things will unfold?

    http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/06/opinio...ebt/index.html

    http://mobile.alternet.org/alternet/...7b56707fde62/1

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  2. #2
    Senior Member Ism's Avatar
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    I'll be graduating with $30,000 in debt, and my mom $20,000 in debt. To be honest, I feel horribly guilty, but I was really stubborn back before I graduated. I was frustrated with my home state (Florida) and was hyper-focused on prestige more than practicality. I saw the former as more important, but I realize now it's not where you go, it's who you know and how much you work for it. Shit, you can go to a community college for two years, a cheap, local college for two more years, and then hit an ivy-league grad school if you have a good enough GPA and score well on your entrance exams.

    These are things I didn't know, and probably things people never really thought to say. My mom didn't have a much clearer idea of the financial consequences, either, since she never finished college when she was young, and later in life went to an in-state community college that didn't cost nearly as much.

    I like to think I wasn't a total fool for going out of state, though. Florida colleges like University of Florida and University of Miami are well-respected. But they aren't nearly as rigorous as I wanted them to be, and I had in my mind that if I went to a better school, debt wouldn't matter because I got the education I wanted and the experience (out of state) I probably needed. I was sorta right. But now, even at this better school, there are so many students who go here who could have made it into any ivy-league they wanted, but stayed because they received in-state tuition. While they're lucky, because the academic rigor here is better here (in VA) than it is in Florida, I realize now I should have done the same and stayed in-state.


    <rant>

    No one even knows what the hell William and Mary is outside of Virginia. It's such a joke. I go back to Florida and it's, like, a miracle if someone even recognizes the name.

    Before I went, they would convince you that everyone would be IMPRESSED that you went there, and that they'd UNDERSTAND how hard it can be compared to other colleges. You'll be guaranteed a job once your employers found out you went there! "Oh, you go to William and Mary!" They said. "You'll get a lot of recognition for what a good school it is!" They said.

    What happens instead? "Whurrz dis Wilyum 'nd Murry? Dat a baptist college?"

    So while I bust my ass here, students who work half as hard get all the praise and recognition by going to the University of Florida or the University of Miami. While also paying next to nothing for their education. I'm not saying there aren't smarty-pants and hard workers there. There's a shit ton of them. And there a lot of people who have to go through a lot of hardship because they have to balance their own jobs and lives at the same time.

    The fact that I'm not even getting any props is just icing on the $50,000 cake.

    But I dunno. There's hope. I guess.

    </rant>

  3. #3
    Senior Member UniqueMixture's Avatar
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    I think that predatory lending practices to people pursuing expensive degrees which they likely will have difficulty paying back may influence the following generation not to pursue higher education and put us on an even worse long term fiscal path then we're already on
    For all that we have done, as a civilization, as individuals, the universe is not stable, and nor is any single thing within it. Stars consume themselves, the universe itself rushes apart, and we ourselves are composed of matter in constant flux. Colonies of cells in temporary alliance, replicating and decaying and housed within, an incandescent cloud of electrical impulses. This is reality, this is self knowledge, and the perception of it will, of course, make you dizzy.

  4. #4
    Freaking Ratchet Rail Tracer's Avatar
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    It is serious alright. The thing is, once you get into most of these loans, you have no option but to pay it back.

    For some loans, like private student loans, you literally can't go bankrupt, you bring that debt to your grave, whether you can pay it or not. That is because in 2005, they passed a bill and made it into law that you just can't go bankrupt. There is no such thing as giving your degree to the people you owe money to to absolve the debt like you can with going bankrupt with a home and turning the home to the lender.

    That is how predatory some of these loans are, damned if you can pay it, damned if you can't.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ism View Post
    I'll be graduating with $30,000 in debt, and my mom $20,000 in debt. To be honest, I feel horribly guilty, but I was really stubborn back before I graduated. I was frustrated with my home state (Florida) and was hyper-focused on prestige more than practicality. I saw the former as more important, but I realize now it's not where you go, it's who you know and how much you work for it. Shit, you can go to a community college for two years, a cheap, local college for two more years, and then hit an ivy-league grad school if you have a good enough GPA and score well on your entrance exams.

    These are things I didn't know, and probably things people never really thought to say. My mom didn't have a much clearer idea of the financial consequences, either, since she never finished college when she was young, and later in life went to an in-state community college that didn't cost nearly as much.

    I like to think I wasn't a total fool for going out of state, though. Florida colleges like University of Florida and University of Miami are well-respected. But they aren't nearly as rigorous as I wanted them to be, and I had in my mind that if I went to a better school, debt wouldn't matter because I got the education I wanted and the experience (out of state) I probably needed. I was sorta right. But now, even at this better school, there are so many students who go here who could have made it into any ivy-league they wanted, but stayed because they received in-state tuition. While they're lucky, because the academic rigor here is better here (in VA) than it is in Florida, I realize now I should have done the same and stayed in-state.
    While everyone at my high school was pressuring to go to places like Berkeley, Davis, Stanford, or UCLA, I was one of the few who thought a community college>transfer was a better idea. Then again, quite a lot of the people in my area were practical about it. Some who could easily get into the high ranking UCs just chose not to until they have exhausted all the courses they can take to transfer.

    I'm one of those who chose the cheap route. That is, I went to a community college for two years, and am now in a "respectable" four year college and am about to graduate. Both of them in-state and near where I live. Once I graduate, I could end up in graduate school if I wanted to (don't bet on it until I've gotten enough experience in the job where I feel graduate school will broaden my horizons.).

    If I am lucky, I wouldn't need to own a dime in predatory loans.

    Can't say the same for people who are in 50k+ debt, can't find a job, and can't find leniency (because they can't.)

  5. #5
    No moss growing on me Giggly's Avatar
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    Default

    It's quite worrisome.

    I'm curious what the resolutions will be. Maybe having to qualify with GPA and major in the future.

  6. #6
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    I am worried about people defaulting on their loans and economic consequences. The cost keeps going up more rapidly than inflation and the loans are getting bigger and bigger. Seems like we are hurtling foward towards a problem.

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  7. #7
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Yeah, it's going to be a problem, IMO, probably a big one. Wages have been stagnant for ages and underemployment is a big problem.

    People my age (GenX) were told all our lives that graduating from college pretty much guaranteed a comfortable life and many of us didn't know any better than to believe it and took the bait. I think the tail end of this generation are starting to see it for the trap it is, but that's still a lot of people.

    Many will default or be forgiven via IBR and others will pay the loans, but delay their lives in order to do so. They will not get married, buy homes, have kids, etc until much later, if at all.

    If my husband and I pay off our loans, it will be because of some kind of unexpected miracle. We've strongly discouraged our kids from going into debt to go to school. The girls seem to have taken it to heart. The boys only care about video games, so I do not know how that's going to work out.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
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  8. #8
    IRL is not real Cimarron's Avatar
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    Our (the younger) generation was aware it was a problem, and I'm glad more people are taking notice of its seriousness now.
    You can't spell "justice" without ISTJ.

  9. #9
    Carerra Lu IZthe411's Avatar
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    Default

    We live in a World economy- so little Jonny and Jane's American dream depends on the economic success of Europe and Asia- forces we can't control despite repeated efforts.

    Of course, these aren't the only problems in today's higher education financial crisis. Many colleges and universities are failing at their most basic responsibility: education. Students are graduating ill-equipped for the needs of the modern workforce. More than half of all college graduates in 2010-11 were unemployed or dramatically underemployed. Many employers rate college graduates today as unprepared or only somewhat prepared for the job.
    Amen here- The children of parents who 'wouldn't do to their own children what was done to them by their parents" are grown, and the fruits of a 'me first' upbringing are apparent. It's also the K-12 education as well- pre-packaged, not learning for the sake of learning, only to meet some kind of metric (financially motivated usually).


    But above all, American society at large must stop pushing the notion that everyone should, or deserves, to go to a four-year college. It took a recession and massive taxpayer bailout for Americans to realize that not everyone should, or deserves, to own a home. We can't afford to learn this lesson the hard way again.
    The American dream is just that. To play it out in reality- at worse, to force it- has caused grand scale problems. It's more of a nightmare.

  10. #10
    mrs disregard's Avatar
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    I have been friends with many a coworker that has been spoiled by attending a four year university and expects not to have to work hard at an hourly job (because it's beneath them of course!). Here I am with my AA degree, have no plans for higher education, and I am a manager with my own desk and office. Hard work pays off, not privilege.

    The "I want" attitudes I've come across are astounding.

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