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  1. #11
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    Clearly you've never held a M249 SAW and all the ammo to feed it.
    So is this the moment we get into some silly Mall Ninja argument, and compare our cock sizes expertise with weaponry?

  2. #12
    Mojibake sprinkles's Avatar
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    The concept of "combat role" is slowly phasing out anyway since we don't fight with fronts and lines anymore. If somebody attacks you, you're in combat, whether you're a pilot, radar operator or an EOD tech.

    As for the stuff that is still an actual combat role, such as jumping out of planes and kicking in doors and blowing shit up, I can see why males would be predominant there.

  3. #13
    this is my winter song EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    Clearly you've never held a M249 SAW and all the ammo to feed it.
    Here's the thing, though. Before you enter a combat situation, in the military, you have to go through basic training, and presumably loads of additional training after that, to make sure you're ready to, for example, hold a M249 SAW and all the ammo to feed it*. If you can handle the physical strain, then congrats! You're in! But if you can't, then see you later, don't let the door hit ya where the good Lord split ya.

    Meaning... if women were also given the chance to go through that training, then all the women who could handle the strain would make it to combat, and all the women who couldn't, wouldn't. Right?

    I honestly can't think of a downside to giving them equal opportunity to at least try, even if they physically fail in the end. Unless that downside had to do with wasting time testing them when they believe that they'll inevitably fail (assuming that time = money).

    *Obviously I know very little about the military. Bear with me here.

    Edit:

    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    Who said anything about lower standards? If it so happens that a woman is unable to meet the minimal physical requirements, then she shouldn't be allowed into a combat position.....but she should not be excluded altogether on the basis of her sex.
    ^ This!
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  4. #14
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    I don't think there is anything wrong with women choosing to be in any position simply on the basis of their gender. However, if the qualifications of the position exclude the majority of female applicants that's just the way it is. Perhaps modifying the system to include the talents of everyone would produce creative and useful strategies, but it's not strictly necessary. Whatever works best is the best thing to do. I am opposed to women being drafted. Which a lot of (other) feminists criticize me for, but whatever.

    I think the point of the thread is slightly different, kind of asserting that the difference between combat and non-combat is rather arbitrary; that may be. I agree with (what was it, the second poster)? someone saying misguided chivalry and ideas of cohesiveness. I think the question is answerable by someone who understands military strategies and what is involved, whether combat positions are really related to qualifications correlated with gender. But I think the real opposition still lies in a gut reaction of not wanting women to be killed (which as the OP points out may be irrational). So we also need to determine whether positions explicitly labeled as "combat" differ significantly from "noncombat" positions in risk of death and physical harm.

  5. #15
    Honor Thy Inferior Such Irony's Avatar
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    I think it's because biologically, men are usually stronger than women. I think people think women couldn't handle it physically. Allow women to try and don't lower the physical standards needed because this is a life/death thing. If a woman can meet the rigourous physical standards then they should be allowed to fight.
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  6. #16
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    Lol WHAT?! Can I even participate in this thread without being banned?! I've been told that I, who have already completed a role in a combat situation and kept myself and my squad alive just fine, have been compared to a child (Great job @RaptorWizard !!) and a woman who's been nurtured her whole life to play with dolls, do her hair, and look pretty instead of even try to see if they can meet the male standards (Looking at you, @LevelZeroHero !) and that's just within the first three posts?!

    The level of moron in this thread is through the roof. You know what I really can't stand more than anything else? Is people who sit on their lazy asses and try to tell me how to do my fucking job.
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  7. #17
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    Clearly you've never held a M249 SAW and all the ammo to feed it.
    He may not have, but I have. It sucks. Most men complain about it. And every soldier puts up with it regardless of what they prefer. There are guys who complain about having to carry an M16 vs the M4 because of the added bulk. It doesn't matter what the soldier wants, though.

    My weapon on my missions was a M2. It, and it's ammo, is a wee bit heavier. I carried it, assembled it, and cleaned it myself every single day. You get used to anything. Yeah, it was heavy at first, and I complained about it.. just like every other soldier that knows he's dealing with a huge weapon in the middle of hearts-and-minds contest and they know they'll never get to use it. I don't even see how this is a valid argument.

    On a side note.. I think I'm done with this thread. I'm fairly sure I'm one more post away from slinging insults.
    Kantgirl: Just say "I'm feminine and I'll punch anyone who says otherwise!"
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  8. #18
    this is my winter song EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SuchIrony View Post
    I think it's because biologically, men are usually stronger than women. I think people think women couldn't handle it physically.
    That seems to be the argument -- that, plus maintaining the same type of camaraderie in the group. (Meaning, it's a similar argument to the don't ask don't tell argument.) I still don't understand why they assume that they know that there's no way that women can meet the physical standards, when that's obviously not the case.
    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    Lol WHAT?! Can I even participate in this thread without being banned?! I've been told that I, who have already completed a role in a combat situation and kept myself and my squad alive just fine, have been compared to a child (Great job @RaptorWizard !!) and a woman who's been nurtured her whole life to play with dolls, do her hair, and look pretty instead of even try to see if they can meet the male standards (Looking at you, @LevelZeroHero !) and that's just within the first three posts?!

    The level of moron in this thread is through the roof. You know what I really can't stand more than anything else? Is people who sit on their lazy asses and try to tell me how to do my fucking job.
    I was considering tagging you in my earlier post, just to see you tear the misogynists a new one and win the thread, but it looks like you got there already!

    Edit: I wonder if there's any correlation between people's feelings on this issue, and their feelings on Title IX...
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  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    He may not have, but I have. It sucks. Most men complain about it. And every soldier puts up with it regardless of what they prefer. There are guys who complain about having to carry an M16 vs the M4 because of the added bulk. It doesn't matter what the soldier wants, though.

    My weapon on my missions was a M2. It, and it's ammo, is a wee bit heavier. I carried it, assembled it, and cleaned it myself every single day. You get used to anything. Yeah, it was heavy at first, and I complained about it.. just like every other soldier that knows he's dealing with a huge weapon in the middle of hearts-and-minds contest and they know they'll never get to use it. I don't even see how this is a valid argument.

    On a side note.. I think I'm done with this thread. I'm fairly sure I'm one more post away from slinging insults.
    My post was more a response to the "guns aren't that heavy" line of reasoning, than it was an argument against women in combat.


  10. #20

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    I think women should be able to fight, I think everyone should be able to fight.

    I love women.

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