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  1. #21
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I do blame it on that, I bet the markets reacted badly to any public statements about rethinking his ideology. His appointment was largely about that I believe.

    This ideology is one that's shared by the state and the wealthiest families and king maker international financiers, they really do believe it, its not propaganda to them anymore. And I'm frightened to think that the hell the next or alternative ideology to Rand's ideology is going to be, what sort of screwball ideology is substituted. I'm betting its one which will look to attack the poor and working people even, even more.
    I don't know. Rand's philosophy was born out of her extreme rejection (and experience) with communism. So if people turned on this, then maybe it'd just cycle back the other way. Obama is showing himself as someone who is just trying to balance things out, but we'd need at least one more similar president after him to make it work.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    The government forced?

    Well in that case I'd be wondering, how they did that and why they did that?

    To be honest I dont believe it takes much for a racketeer to adopt new rackets when they opportunity arises, I would not say forced, I would say permitted.

    Why did they do it? Well I think that is the question which needs answering, I really think it was about sustaining capitalism for a couple more years, keeping the fantasy alive and popular on the one hand and post poning crisis from the contradictions, such as there not being the wages in the economy for people to act as consumers and sustain demand for production, for a while.
    The whole recession we have been in for the last 5 years can be traced to someones idea in the government that its better for people to own a nice house rather than rent. From this Fanny Mae and Freddy Mac were created. What they did and do is make loans to people for houses who couldn't get them otherwise. Then somewhere in the late 90's the big banks decided to raise the requirement for getting a loan and either Congress or Bill Clinton (I can't remember which) literally told them NO, keep making these loans. And then the Fed dropped the interest rates really low after 9/11 and decided to keep them there for waaaayy to long which helped fuel the fire for getting a loan to easily. And then the consumers were being so stupid as to by all these houses and stuff. And Wall Street got crazy which didn't help things either. Then we fell off the cliff. That's how it happened in an extremely condensed form.

  3. #23
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil P View Post
    And Wall Street got crazy which didn't help things either. Then we fell off the cliff. That's how it happened in an extremely condensed form.
    "Which didn't help things either.." You make it sound like a small cog in the machine.

    The worst mortgages (the sub primes) went through the big investment banks. Citi, Goldman and Sachs, Merrill Lynch, etc grabbed up the loans of businesses specifically targetting sub-primes (Ameriquest, Countrywide). Fannie and Freddie had stricter requirements. They didn't just loan to anyone. They didn't even touch subprimes until relatively late in the game, when they saw where the whole industry was going. They're still at fault, but not the cause. I agree though that these people should've rented and not felt entitled with "ownership" though. At the same time, I think there are other intangibles that causes people to think that way. People in this country are bombarded with media messages and social messages that makes them think of themselves as subhuman if they don't have this mythical "American Dream". That's something that needs to be fixed in almost everyone. I can see why it tempts people though to go beyond their means.

  4. #24
    mrs disregard's Avatar
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    My husband and I don't have any loans or credit cards, but I know that they are necessary to achieve certain goals in life, so I will take the plunge with my him when it proves necessary.

  5. #25
    IRL is not real Cimarron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    I don't even have a credit card (I use a Mastercard branded debit though). So yeah, no "we" going on here.
    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    same here (only mine's visa)
    Me three!
    You can't spell "justice" without ISTJ.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    "Which didn't help things either.." You make it sound like a small cog in the machine.

    The worst mortgages (the sub primes) went through the big investment banks. Citi, Goldman and Sachs, Merrill Lynch, etc grabbed up the loans of businesses specifically targetting sub-primes (Ameriquest, Countrywide). Fannie and Freddie had stricter requirements. They didn't just loan to anyone. They didn't even touch subprimes until relatively late in the game, when they saw where the whole industry was going. They're still at fault, but not the cause. I agree though that these people should've rented and not felt entitled with "ownership" though. At the same time, I think there are other intangibles that causes people to think that way. People in this country are bombarded with media messages and social messages that makes them think of themselves as subhuman if they don't have this mythical "American Dream". That's something that needs to be fixed in almost everyone. I can see why it tempts people though to go beyond their means.
    As for the big banks, I believe now that they should be forced to split up some so that if they fail, the economy does not fail with them.
    As for the consumers, advertising and marketing probably helped lead the way to overspending.

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