User Tag List

First 41213141516 Last

Results 131 to 140 of 164

  1. #131
    Tempbanned
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Enneagram
    8w9
    Posts
    14,031

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnyboy View Post
    Haha, I knew I wasn't crazy. I think I read some stuff about your experiences in a thread about a girl you were interested in or something; could have sworn I heard some stuff about law school. Come to find out you're like me, can't decide what the fuck you want to do in life. /cheers
    I've also been a lobbyist (until Dodd Frank passed), worked for a think tank, worked for 2 different congressional house offices, worked on a senate campaign, been a property manager, ran a golf range, delivered furniture, clerked for a Judge and held some other small jobs.

  2. #132
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    MBTI
    Yin
    Enneagram
    One sx/sp
    Posts
    13,909

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    And I'm still right that the less well off also pay more in those other countries (a part of my argument you felt no need to address).

    Taxes have been raised on the rich.

    Your turn.
    What you specifically said is that the USA has the most progressive taxation, and that is specifically what I addressed. There are a whole lot of valid ways you can respond, but saying that I did not address that point is not one of them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    You are right in a sense that the USA has the most progressive tax code (a lot of it having to do with people who don't pay any taxes of certain kinds). I am also still right that our wealthy payer lower rates than that of other countries and less than they did in the past.

    Two things blunt the effects of our progressive tax structure. One is that we have a much lower tax rate overall, which reduces the relevance of its progressiveness. If there were a country where only the top 1% pay any taxes at all, but they paid only 1% of their income in taxes, that country would have a much more progressive tax structure than us, but the practical result would seem far more regressive. You understand?

    The second thing is that the USA has a lot of wealth and income inequality to start with. This is actually in part because we tax so little and because we spend out tax revenues rather unwisely (at least for the purpose of reducing inequality). Higher inequality to begin with requires a tax code to be more progressive to some extent just to keep up.

    These two factors are particularly important in regards to the OP's question, I think.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


    _________________________________
    INTP. Type 1>6>5. sx/sp.
    Live and let live will just amount to might makes right

  3. #133
    Senior Member UniqueMixture's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    MBTI
    estj
    Enneagram
    378 sx/so
    Socionics
    esfp
    Posts
    3,038

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    There is a pretty big leap from, 3-D printers exist to 3-D printers have made most manufacturing obsolete.

    Care to fill in the gap.

    Because like most of the other things you post, this has just enough plausibility (and the flashiness of new tech.) to draw you in hook line and sinker, but not so much that any serious government policy maker is actually taking it into consideration.

    The same goes for the resource economy. When I'm reading about it in politico, the economist, the national interest, the new republic, the hill, the national journal, the financial times, the atlantic, foreign policy, national affairs, and bloomberg I'll decide to care.

    I was writing about the Natural gas reserves in Colorado right after the energy committee hearings on it. Now everyones talking about fracking and the domestic energy boom.

    Are we all going to be talking about any of this next year, or will it be another catchy pop-culture politics idea fallen by the way side?
    Well, yeah no shit 90% of this stuff doesn't come to pass. I mean most companies don't last more than 10 years either, does that make economics false? The point is that technological change is happening at an accelerated pace solutions are going to come from there if anywhere. This whole "let's mitigate the effects of scarcity" crap is not a solution, it's just a sad way of keeping things the same because some people can't adapt quickly to change. Whatever the case, most of the developed world has a much more "socialist" government than the united states and we are trending in that direction because of major demographic shifts and increasing population density. It's just how societies naturally tend to develop. Conservatism/libretarianism is the minority view in circles where people are more educated because it is a throwback to the society of 200 years ago which isn't complex enough to deal with the global challenges we face today. Human beings need a way to deal with systemic large scale problems that are transnational and beyond the ability of any single entity like a company to deal with, and because those types of problems CANNOT be solved without larger collaborative effort than is currently possible power will concentrate until such a structure arises. Conservatives are the ones trying to hold on to a pipe dream much like Thomas Jefferson's ideal of America being a country of individual farm owners could never pan out because there are forces at work beyond those of just economics.
    For all that we have done, as a civilization, as individuals, the universe is not stable, and nor is any single thing within it. Stars consume themselves, the universe itself rushes apart, and we ourselves are composed of matter in constant flux. Colonies of cells in temporary alliance, replicating and decaying and housed within, an incandescent cloud of electrical impulses. This is reality, this is self knowledge, and the perception of it will, of course, make you dizzy.

  4. #134
    Tempbanned
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Enneagram
    8w9
    Posts
    14,031

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    What you specifically said is that the USA has the most progressive taxation, and that is specifically what I addressed. There are a whole lot of valid ways you can respond, but saying that I did not address that point is not one of them.
    I also said lower income folks pay more in other countries.

    Tax Rates Around the World

    They pay a VAT tax greater than our avg. state income state income tax in:

    Canada
    Switzerland
    Australia
    South Africa
    Luxembourg
    New Zealand
    Mexico
    Israel
    Brazil
    China
    Germany
    France
    U.K.
    Austria
    Netherlands
    Spain
    Italy
    Belgium
    Ireland
    Poland
    Greece
    Finland
    Denmark
    Sweden
    Norway
    Iceland
    Hong Kong
    Portugal

    There is also a greater minimum level of taxation than the 0% we have here due to deductions in:

    Canada
    Japan
    China
    Luxembourg
    Finland
    Argentina
    New Zealand
    Russia
    Israel
    Austria
    Italy
    Belgium
    Denmark

    In every single one of these countries the lower income quartiles pay substantially more for their welfare states.

    Why should the wealthy pay more than the 70% they already do for our welfare state, when the vast majority of the public pays less than they do in other countries with these systems (some of which still can't afford them even with their higher levels of taxation).

    Why should the burden fall only on the wealthy?

  5. #135
    Tempbanned
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Enneagram
    8w9
    Posts
    14,031

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by UniqueMixture View Post
    Conservatism/libretarianism is the minority view in circles where people are more educated because it is a throwback to the society of 200 years ago which isn't complex enough to deal with the global challenges we face today.
    It's as if no thought at all goes into the things you type.

  6. #136
    null Jonny's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    MBTI
    FREE
    Posts
    2,486

    Default

    Consider looking at the GINI coefficient, which is a measure of the income inequality in a state. A value of 0 equates with perfect equality, and a value of 1 equates with extreme inequality. It isn't sufficient to look at the progressive tax structure alone, as in many cases the progressiveness of a particular tax system is a function of the underlying inequalities it is designed to offset.

    As an example, the GINI coefficient after taxes and transfers for various states you listed:

    Chile - 0.494
    Mexico - 0.476
    Turkey - 0.409
    United States - 0.378
    Israel - 0.371
    Portugal - 0.353
    United Kingdom - 0.345
    Italy - 0.337
    Australia - 0.336
    New Zealand - 0.33
    Japan - 0.329
    Canada - 0.324
    Spain - 0.317
    Estonia - 0.315
    South Korea - 0.315
    Greece - 0.307
    Poland - 0.305
    Switzerland - 0.303
    Iceland - 0.301
    Germany - 0.295
    Netherlands - 0.294
    France - 0.293
    Ireland - 0.293
    Luxembourg - 0.288
    Hungary - 0.272
    Austria - 0.261
    Belgium - 0.259
    Finland - 0.259
    Sweden - 0.259
    Slovak Republic - 0.257
    Czech Republic - 0.256
    Norway - 0.25
    Denmark - 0.248
    Slovenia - 0.236
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  7. #137
    Senior Member UniqueMixture's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    MBTI
    estj
    Enneagram
    378 sx/so
    Socionics
    esfp
    Posts
    3,038

    Default

    ^http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ni_coefficient

    the official us census bureau data is 46.9

    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    We don't enter it, because liberals are a society of enablers. They're like George McFly in Back to the Future. "AWW shucks, Biff! Very funny, guys!"
    That doesn't explain why people work harder, for longer hours, and make less now than they did 33 years ago. It also doesn't explain why technological innovation has slowed down (# of patents produced by American companies). What those can both be explained by is the lack of access to higher education which does indeed come in part from "laziness," but has other sources as well such as ignorance and the lack of funding like you saw after world war II with the GI bill, etc. It can also be explained in part by rising corporate power putting downward pressure on wages which is part of what makes education and health care costs rise to quickly (because wages have been stagnant for 30 years for most in the corporate world, but not in government sectors like education and health care). This wage stagnation causes people to eek out a subsistence living and because people are so focused on day to day survival they cannot devote time or mental energy to higher needs
    because they're stuck at the lower level of conscious thought because their amygdalas are lighting up like a christmas tree due to increased cortisol release they display a lot of low effort thought which is how the higher ups in the republican party like Romney manipulate them into a bunch of "pro job" garbage which really means more minimum wage jobs at wal-mart not a restoration of the kind of prosperity that the average American had in the 60s/70s when there was a higher tax base for the government to finance larger projects. Part of this we legitimately have no control over because China is not going away and wages will continue to drop until they reach a global floor (at least in construction, hospitality, most of the service industries, you're starting to see it with white collar jobs like lawyers as a glut of people move into the few spots left where someone can have a decent life, and if the republicans are successful eventually in the entire government sector as well).
    For all that we have done, as a civilization, as individuals, the universe is not stable, and nor is any single thing within it. Stars consume themselves, the universe itself rushes apart, and we ourselves are composed of matter in constant flux. Colonies of cells in temporary alliance, replicating and decaying and housed within, an incandescent cloud of electrical impulses. This is reality, this is self knowledge, and the perception of it will, of course, make you dizzy.

  8. #138
    null Jonny's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    MBTI
    FREE
    Posts
    2,486

    Default

    Also, I know I've posted this before, but here is a look at the income percentiles in the US over the last 45 years, measured in 2010 dollars:

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  9. #139
    Tempbanned
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Enneagram
    8w9
    Posts
    14,031

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnyboy View Post
    Consider looking at the GINI coefficient, which is a measure of the income inequality in a state. A value of 0 equates with perfect equality, and a value of 1 equates with extreme inequality. It isn't sufficient to look at the progressive tax structure alone, as in many cases the progressiveness of a particular tax system is a function of the underlying inequalities it is designed to offset.

    As an example, the GINI coefficient after taxes and transfers for various states you listed:
    So?

  10. #140
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    MBTI
    Yin
    Enneagram
    One sx/sp
    Posts
    13,909

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    So?
    So it's one answer to your god damn question. Two questions actually. How progressive is the USA's tax code compared to others, and why should rich people in the USA have to pay such high tax shares.

    I'll just have to wait for Jonny to come along with some graphics that echo my other point, the one about the USA's over-all tax rate being really low and kind deflating the significance of how the taxes are structured. As promised, I'm not going to bother with that, myself.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


    _________________________________
    INTP. Type 1>6>5. sx/sp.
    Live and let live will just amount to might makes right

Similar Threads

  1. Rate the functions per their comfort levels in time of stress
    By UnitOfPopulation in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 07-02-2013, 08:25 PM
  2. [E8] How do you deal with an aggressive 8 in the work place?
    By knight in forum Enneatypes
    Replies: 26
    Last Post: 07-24-2012, 09:20 PM
  3. [Fe] Fe help stat: what do I wear to an academic reception in the evening, no dinner?
    By Usehername in forum The SJ Guardhouse (ESFJ, ISFJ, ESTJ, ISTJ)
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 06-09-2010, 10:12 PM
  4. GM, So do I own the equivalent of a Pontiac G5 in stock now, or what?
    By Brendan in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 06-10-2009, 08:43 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO