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  1. #51
    Senior Member burymecloser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    There's only one writer who claimed this from viewing a photo decades later of one of Ruth's bats, and extrapolating that Ruth was a cheat. Ruth was kicking everyone's ass in his day, and I'd think at least one of the actual players then would have spoken up, at least out of resentment.
    You are misinformed. It is documented and undisputed that Ruth used a "trick bat" with four pieces of wood glued around a cork until American League president Ban Johnson prohibited it in August 1923. Dan Gutman, in It Ain't Cheatin' If You Don't Get Caught, writes of another Ruth bat found to be corked. Ruth's constant testing of limits is probably part of what made him so extraordinary.
    i just want to be a sweetheart

  2. #52
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by burymecloser View Post
    You are misinformed. It is documented and undisputed that Ruth used a "trick bat" with four pieces of wood glued around a cork until American League president Ban Johnson prohibited it in August 1923. Dan Gutman, in It Ain't Cheatin' If You Don't Get Caught, writes of another Ruth bat found to be corked. Ruth's constant testing of limits is probably part of what made him so extraordinary.
    Read this whole article. The stats at the end, if it's TLDR.

    http://baseballresearcher.blogspot.c...ing-truth.html

  3. #53
    Senior Member burymecloser's Avatar
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    You don't understand what we're talking about. You're saying Ruth was a great player, and I agree; I believe he was the best baseball player ever. I'm saying he used a corked bat. The link you cite plainly says that Ruth used a four-piece bat banned in August 1923. Which I already told you.
    i just want to be a sweetheart

  4. #54
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by burymecloser View Post
    You don't understand what we're talking about. You're saying Ruth was a great player, and I agree; I believe he was the best baseball player ever. I'm saying he used a corked bat. That's a fact. You're saying he didn't. You're wrong. The link you cite plainly says that Ruth used a four-piece bat banned in August 1923. Which I already told you.
    The four piece bat wasn't the corked one (there's little evidence surrounding the corked bat). The laminated bat was a mistake of not even knowing it was illegal.. there weren't any explicit rules about it, but he gave it up when that was settled. And yet still produced impressive stats afterwards. He isn't anything like Lance Armstrong (or Barry Bonds, as the original Slate article wanted to suggest, saying that if Ruth lived in our time, he would have juiced up. That's a huge leap to make from this story of the laminated bat). Anyways, we agree that he was great. That's all that matters.

  5. #55
    Member trancemode's Avatar
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    Lol.

    There might be some elements of truth in that; but really, in the end, it doesn't change who did what, does it?
    Nope.

    But to label him uniformly a scapegoat seems to be a bit of a stretch; he's actually culpable of the things people have accused him of doing.
    Okay, maybe scapegoat is an “imprecise” term for him. But he is in the sense that’s now seen as a kind of poster boy of the doping athlete, even a promoter of PEDs…a fanboy idol…a corrupter of America’s youth. When I grow up, I wanna be like Lance Armstrong.


    Because I have too much time on my hands today, I’m providing three examples of people I believe deserve the public’s fury ahead of Lance Armstrong, not necessarily in order of significance.

    1) The captains of industry, along with the politicians they finance and the mass of willfully ignorant right wing ideologues who support them, who through various means successfully cast doubt on the reality of global warming and its cause. Now it’s too late. We’re pretty much fucked. Faced with a situation where the best we can hope for is to avoid a worst case scenario (and the worst case scenarios keep getting worse). Forget worrying about your grandchildren: the future is now. The polar ice caps are melting faster than expected, sea levels are rising, widespread droughts are driving up food prices, more and more people are being displaced (if not killed) by the rapidly increasing number of weather disasters, and so on. Gotta tell you, these shitheads piss me off quite a bit more than Lance Armstrong does.

    2) The high rollers, CEOs and banking loan sharks who caused the economic meltdown, which in turn ruined a good many lives around the world, quite a few more lives than Lance Armstrong has ruined, suffice to say. Most of them not only went unpunished, but remained in high positions (watch the documentary film Inside Job narrated by Matt Damon, it’s all there).

    3) Abusers. Child abusers, women abusers, animal abusers, etc.

  6. #56
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by trancemode View Post
    Okay, maybe scapegoat is an “imprecise” term for him. But he is in the sense that’s now seen as a kind of poster boy of the doping athlete, even a promoter of PEDs…a fanboy idol…a corrupter of America’s youth. When I grow up, I wanna be like Lance Armstrong.


    Because I have too much time on my hands today, I’m providing three examples of people I believe deserve the public’s fury ahead of Lance Armstrong, not necessarily in order of significance.

    1) The captains of industry, along with the politicians they finance and the mass of willfully ignorant right wing ideologues who support them, who through various means successfully cast doubt on the reality of global warming and its cause. Now it’s too late. We’re pretty much fucked. Faced with a situation where the best we can hope for is to avoid a worst case scenario (and the worst case scenarios keep getting worse). Forget worrying about your grandchildren: the future is now. The polar ice caps are melting faster than expected, sea levels are rising, widespread droughts are driving up food prices, more and more people are being displaced (if not killed) by the rapidly increasing number of weather disasters, and so on. Gotta tell you, these shitheads piss me off quite a bit more than Lance Armstrong does.

    2) The high rollers, CEOs and banking loan sharks who caused the economic meltdown (which in turn ruined a good many lives around the world, quite a few more lives than Lance Armstrong has ruined, suffice to say). Most of them not only went unpunished, but remained in high positions (watch the documentary film Inside Job narrated by Matt Damon, it’s all there).

    3) Abusers. Child abusers, women abusers, animal abusers, etc.
    I don't think you'll find anyone here who actually disagrees with you. The reason why you don't see the fury redirected in the media is because it's run by the very same people you want to be held accountable. They're not going to start a witchhunt against themselves.

  7. #57
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by trancemode View Post
    When I grow up, I wanna be like Lance Armstrong.
    LOL. You mean the "evil Lance"?

    It is too bad, I know I found his story of triumph over cancer to excel in his field to be inspiring. I suspected for a long time he WAS doping, simply because it seems to be common, and because of his success in his field despite his cancer, and because of the huge NUMBER of accusations that were coming out, and for repeated inquiries by different bodies to accuse him of such... usually there is not such a vast conspiracy in place that someone will be targeted that long by multiple accusers.

    Because I have too much time on my hands today, I’m providing three examples of people I believe deserve the public’s fury ahead of Lance Armstrong, not necessarily in order of significance.

    oooo, oooh, oooh! I know! I know!!

    1. Kirk Cameron, for his affront to science everywhere and really cheesy movies about firemen.
    2. Mercedes Lackey, for not being able to save City of Heroes from destruction. Then again, she tried; she really tried. Perhaps forgiveness is in order. Plus she's a girl.
    3. Jimson "Snuffy" B. Pendergrass, whose goat chewed through a communication line that brought down the Internet in Lodgepole, NE, for a period of 17 hours, so that grandmas could not forward spam mail to their unsuspecting next of kin. The real tragedy is that Pendergrass noticed his beast's odd culinary habit and fixed the wire with duct tape, allowing the onslaught of bad forwards to resume. The goat has since been given a hero's welcome and a pass to the White House, while Pendergrass has found himself shunned even by the Amish, and left living in an abandoned missile silo somewhere to the north.

    1) The captains of industry, along with the politicians they finance and the mass of willfully ignorant right wing ideologues who support them, who through various means successfully cast doubt on the reality of global warming and its cause. Now it’s too late. We’re pretty much fucked. Faced with a situation where the best we can hope for is to avoid a worst case scenario (and the worst case scenarios keep getting worse). Forget worrying about your grandchildren: the future is now. The polar ice caps are melting faster than expected, sea levels are rising, widespread droughts are driving up food prices, more and more people are being displaced (if not killed) by the rapidly increasing number of weather disasters, and so on. Gotta tell you, these shitheads piss me off quite a bit more than Lance Armstrong does.
    If only Armstrong had been an Olympic swimmer instead. Then we could try to tie him to the conspiracy to raise the water level globally.

    2) The high rollers, CEOs and banking loan sharks who caused the economic meltdown, which in turn ruined a good many lives around the world, quite a few more lives than Lance Armstrong has ruined, suffice to say. Most of them not only went unpunished, but remained in high positions (watch the documentary film Inside Job narrated by Matt Damon, it’s all there).
    Ever see Margin Call? fascinating movie. And sickening.

    3) Abusers. Child abusers, women abusers, animal abusers, etc.
    Okay, you win. I mean, between Kirk, Mercedes, and Snuffy.... well, I got nuthin.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  8. #58
    Member trancemode's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    oooo, oooh, oooh! I know! I know!!

    1. Kirk Cameron, for his affront to science everywhere and really cheesy movies about firemen.
    2. Mercedes Lackey, for not being able to save City of Heroes from destruction. Then again, she tried; she really tried. Perhaps forgiveness is in order. Plus she's a girl.
    3. Jimson "Snuffy" B. Pendergrass, whose goat chewed through a communication line that brought down the Internet in Lodgepole, NE, for a period of 17 hours, so that grandmas could not forward spam mail to their unsuspecting next of kin. The real tragedy is that Pendergrass noticed his beast's odd culinary habit and fixed the wire with duct tape, allowing the onslaught of bad forwards to resume. The goat has since been given a hero's welcome and a pass to the White House, while Pendergrass has found himself shunned even by the Amish, and left living in an abandoned missile silo somewhere to the north.


    If only Armstrong had been an Olympic swimmer instead. Then we could try to tie him to the conspiracy to raise the water level globally.


    Okay, you win. I mean, between Kirk, Mercedes, and Snuffy.... well, I got nuthin.
    You're real funny, aren't you? Did you copy that stuff from The Onion?

  9. #59
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by trancemode View Post
    You're real funny, aren't you? Did you copy that stuff from The Onion?
    Lol... No, I'm really that screwed up in the head, I just made it up.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  10. #60
    redundant descriptor netzealot's Avatar
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    In a way, people are giving Lance more than what he deserves, in credit and in punishment.

    I think he should get what other sports cheaters have gotten: forgotten. Only to be remembered as someone who won, but only in such a way that makes winning irrelevant. Lance Armstrong deserves to become the next Mark McGwire or Sammy Sosa nobody talks about anymore.

    Somehow, people think that because of the duration and exposure of his success that he deserves some kind of "oh well, you did good anyways Lance" consolation prize but they are not realizing that cheating undermines his entire record and the USADA knew that, which is why they stripped every one of his titles. These are people who knew the game, knew the guy they were dealing with, and knew the severity of his actions in the context of the sport. Their ruling was fair and the public should follow suit in forgetting him.

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