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  1. #21
    redundant descriptor netzealot's Avatar
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    This is indeed embarrassing for parts of the US government, but look... they were rejected by civilian government (and this was decades ago, imagine the impossibility to do so in recent times) so this doesn't qualify as ammunition for conspiracy theories.

    I have said it time and time again, 9/11 is not what government conspiracy looks like. The Clinton affair or Watergate scandal is what government conspiracy looks like... it's small, localized, and benefits a very small group of people in very, very obvious ways. Even with the small amount of exposure it is still often exposed and punished. What almost every conspiracy theorist has in common is that they perceive the government as a single ominous entity orchestrated by some kind of hive-mind. In fact, though, only monarchies and dictatorships have such a design that they could operate successfully in any way close to that. That's not how the US government works and if you don't believe me, you better go arm yourself against your mailman because he's a part of the government too. Maybe he's planting mail to lead you into a state of compliance... no motive for that? Who needs reasons, it's the government.

    Where's the motive? Some people have said that it was to inspire war... and they would probably quote this as evidence. In fact, it's evidence that that was not the reason, since the US has demonstrated that if such a thing were conceivably true it would require approvals, would not necessarily be inspired by money (oil), and would not have been nearly as large scale as 9/11. There are ways they could incite a war on false grounds without crippling our own economy and killing over 3,000 people. That doesn't make sense, especially in the wake of this 'evidence'.

  2. #22
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Standuble View Post
    My experiences with the left (I do not know whether I'm still technically "left" or not these days) is not so much the portrayal of homosexuality as a harmless sport but portrays homosexuals themselves as everyday people who do not deserve the persecution they receive and homosexuality as merely the love of the same gender. I myself hold these views too. Perhaps I am wrong about the left as a whole as my association with it has been in the form of online discussion with more radical lefties who seemed to be good at critical thinking.

    As for gays being more interested in vice and villainy, I would say that's pure conjecture. Plus I ask the question whether a paedophile who goes for a minor of the same gender is technically gay or not. Would the gender of said minor be a factor in the decision making or would the age criteria supercede it?
    You might find this to be an interesting read:
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/johann..._b_136697.html
    Take the weakest thing in you
    And then beat the bastards with it
    And always hold on when you get love
    So you can let go when you give it

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beorn View Post
    You might find this to be an interesting read:
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/johann..._b_136697.html
    I got through about half and my previous statement still stands. It only talks about homosexuals in the fascist sphere of past and present, it says nothing about any evidence to support the idea that homosexuals are more likely to be fascist than heterosexuals. It's all conjecture - one could conclude that the idea was true from the statement that homosexuality was "extremely prevalent" in the upper levels of the BNP but it may be a case of "homophobes are homosexuals in denial" who have taken their denial to the extreme.

  4. #24
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Standuble View Post
    I got through about half and my previous statement still stands. It only talks about homosexuals in the fascist sphere of past and present, it says nothing about any evidence to support the idea that homosexuals are more likely to be fascist than heterosexuals. It's all conjecture - one could conclude that the idea was true from the statement that homosexuality was "extremely prevalent" in the upper levels of the BNP but it may be a case of "homophobes are homosexuals in denial" who have taken their denial to the extreme.
    I wasn't attempting to contradict your original statement with the article.

    I just think it's a fascinating article on the general topic.
    Take the weakest thing in you
    And then beat the bastards with it
    And always hold on when you get love
    So you can let go when you give it

  5. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by Standuble View Post
    My experiences with the left (I do not know whether I'm still technically "left" or not these days) is not so much the portrayal of homosexuality as a harmless sport but portrays homosexuals themselves as everyday people who do not deserve the persecution they receive and homosexuality as merely the love of the same gender. I myself hold these views too. Perhaps I am wrong about the left as a whole as my association with it has been in the form of online discussion with more radical lefties who seemed to be good at critical thinking.

    As for gays being more interested in vice and villainy, I would say that's pure conjecture. Plus I ask the question whether a paedophile who goes for a minor of the same gender is technically gay or not. Would the gender of said minor be a factor in the decision making or would the age criteria supercede it?
    I dont believe that gays are more interested in vice or villainy, I do believe that there is a blindspot, a pretty major one, for those that are or the historical associations of homosexuality with the same, or perhaps what I am discussing is homosexual acts as opposed to the orientation per se.

    With regard to peadophilia I believe that the predatory aspect is the most important, to my knowledge, most of those predatory peadophiles who target children may also target "child like" or at the very least vulnerable adults too, there are peadophiles whose strategies for preying upon children or adolescents involve the "seduction" of entire families, sometimes also the professionals, neighbours, communities surrounding their victims and not simply in order to better elude detection but because it is necessary to their drive satisfaction. There are correlates between sexually predatory and transgressive behaviours and other criminal behaviorus, petty thefts, frauds, exploitations of trust (usually rationalised as naivetey on the part of the target) and socially transgressive acts, such as betrayal, including child or spousal abandonment. I read some interesting psycho-analytical literature on perversion and seperate literature on sado-maschoism in the same series which analysed behaviour such as rape and burgularly as belonging to the same spectrum of motivation.

    My problem is that most of the left thinking about homosexuality doesnt consider the history besides it being a history of the underdog, oppressed minority, I think that's extremely simplistic and false. As a result it would appear that a lot of indefensible behaviour and individuals are now not simply defensible or their defense is mandatory. Its the worst sort of double thinking, historical revisionism and uncritical thinking there is.

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