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  1. #11
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beorn View Post
    Did you just go from implying that I'm a conspiracy theorist to accusing me of being a mindless consumer of American propaganda?
    Yeah but everyone knows Victor drinks the Kool Aid.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cimarron View Post
    I guess this is similar to the declassified documents surrounding the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution, where Secretary of Defense during the time of the Vietnam War admits no Communists attacked our navy during the "Gulf of Tonkin Incident," that that was staged so that we could take action against Vietnam. At least that's what I've read, but then again the line between fantasy and reality is blurring when it comes to history...
    Well the mainstream press in the UK in marginal columns or their free magazines did all kinds of pieces about how lost the US was in the wake of the Cold War for want of a "new enemy", at least one which could be something akin to what "communism" was.

  3. #13
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Well the mainstream press in the UK in marginal columns or their free magazines did all kinds of pieces about how lost the US was in the wake of the Cold War for want of a "new enemy", at least one which could be something akin to what "communism" was.
    And the BBC documentary, The Power of Nightmares explained how they filled that void.
    Take the weakest thing in you
    And then beat the bastards with it
    And always hold on when you get love
    So you can let go when you give it

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beorn View Post
    And the BBC documentary, The Power of Nightmares explained how they filled that void.
    Yeah, that was the closest to mainstream reportage that got, although by that point it had already begun to pass out of the zeitgheist.

    There's not many people in the UK remember even now, and its not that long ago, that there were massive, popular demonstrations against the Bush-Blair wars, any attention to it since has been pretty much because elements on the left and right of the political spectrum in the UK are gunning for Blair who's pretty much resident in the US for reasons other than being a tax exile if you know what I mean.

    One of the most interesting things in relation to the Bush-Blair years is that Blair has given interviews, again appearing as marginal pieces, in which he suggests that the greatest concern at the time was not to permit US unilateralism and not for reasons of international law or the deep state in the US or anything like that but because of what sort of public response there could be to that in the US, ie if the US vs. USSR was replaced by the US vs. Everyone Else.

    The focus on reportage hasnt been on foreign policy since then, its been on domestic policy and about creating the popular mandate necessary to dismantle the welfare state, mind you there has been scandals about the extent of UK press spying upon the public in the mean time.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Yeah, that was the closest to mainstream reportage that got, although by that point it had already begun to pass out of the zeitgheist.

    There's not many people in the UK remember even now, and its not that long ago, that there were massive, popular demonstrations against the Bush-Blair wars, any attention to it since has been pretty much because elements on the left and right of the political spectrum in the UK are gunning for Blair who's pretty much resident in the US for reasons other than being a tax exile if you know what I mean.

    One of the most interesting things in relation to the Bush-Blair years is that Blair has given interviews, again appearing as marginal pieces, in which he suggests that the greatest concern at the time was not to permit US unilateralism and not for reasons of international law or the deep state in the US or anything like that but because of what sort of public response there could be to that in the US, ie if the US vs. USSR was replaced by the US vs. Everyone Else.

    The focus on reportage hasnt been on foreign policy since then, its been on domestic policy and about creating the popular mandate necessary to dismantle the welfare state, mind you there has been scandals about the extent of UK press spying upon the public in the mean time.
    I think many people remember the demonstrations before the Iraq War. A march with a million people wouldn't be forgotten easily. The cynic in me believes that the British public on the whole just moved on because it had its own concerns which were much more interesting. I know that was the case for me. The young probably do not remember but I reckon a suprising number of people who were at least ten at the time would probably recall if prompted. At the very least they may remember that the protest carried no effect and that the Iraq War commenced a month later with the government paying no heed to the public's wishes. Whether that increased public cynicism over the long term (if the public could even become more cynical after the 70s and 80s) I cannot say. I remember that not many people were surprised about the expenses scandal and if the recent enquiry by Yewtree into suspected paedophilia in Parliament in the 1980s.

    As for Operation Northwoods, it does not surprise me either. A content population is not always a loyal one, it's loyalty usually stretches no further than its paycheck and life concerns. Fear will cause them support because it asserts a risk which can destroy their worldview.

  6. #16
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    It is the military's duty to conceive every possible contingency, and for multiple purposes. Where some see conspiracy, I see experience.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Standuble View Post
    I think many people remember the demonstrations before the Iraq War. A march with a million people wouldn't be forgotten easily. The cynic in me believes that the British public on the whole just moved on because it had its own concerns which were much more interesting. I know that was the case for me. The young probably do not remember but I reckon a suprising number of people who were at least ten at the time would probably recall if prompted. At the very least they may remember that the protest carried no effect and that the Iraq War commenced a month later with the government paying no heed to the public's wishes. Whether that increased public cynicism over the long term (if the public could even become more cynical after the 70s and 80s) I cannot say. I remember that not many people were surprised about the expenses scandal and if the recent enquiry by Yewtree into suspected paedophilia in Parliament in the 1980s.

    As for Operation Northwoods, it does not surprise me either. A content population is not always a loyal one, it's loyalty usually stretches no further than its paycheck and life concerns. Fear will cause them support because it asserts a risk which can destroy their worldview.
    Any enquiry into parliamentary figures involved in peadophilia that's been taking place has been pretty hushed, I've not heard about it and I usually hear about stuff like that.

    It would interest me because I knew people with Masonic links who told me that the Kincora scandal, which involved young males from childrens homes being supplied to abusers foreign and british national by people with establishment orange order links was only the tip of the ice berg. That this was deliberately done by shady establishment figures to diplomats to accumulate black mail materials.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Any enquiry into parliamentary figures involved in peadophilia that's been taking place has been pretty hushed, I've not heard about it and I usually hear about stuff like that.

    It would interest me because I knew people with Masonic links who told me that the Kincora scandal, which involved young males from childrens homes being supplied to abusers foreign and british national by people with establishment orange order links was only the tip of the ice berg. That this was deliberately done by shady establishment figures to diplomats to accumulate black mail materials.
    Oops, I appear to have been mistaken. It was a paedophile ring with alleged links to the British government in the 1980s, though it asserts that numerous higher-ups may have been involved. Link is here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-21068494. I wouldn't be surprised if old Thatcher wasn't the top dog there as well.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Standuble View Post
    Oops, I appear to have been mistaken. It was a paedophile ring with alleged links to the British government in the 1980s, though it asserts that numerous higher-ups may have been involved. Link is here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-21068494. I wouldn't be surprised if old Thatcher wasn't the top dog there as well.
    The New Right was supposed to have been riddled with so called "boy lovers" and victims of abuse, I'm not surprised, the english establishment was riddled with a pretty vicious sort of homosexuality for a long time and its almost a historic tradition.

    Its part of the reason that I dont buy a lot of the liberals notions about homosexuality being all sweetness and light, the history here has been much different to that, its a practice which, especially in its male incarnations, is much closer to sado-masochism and rape domination types. Homosexuals have been victimised and ostrachised but they've been villains too and its been a watchword for villainy for some reason, besides prejudice and hating.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    The New Right was supposed to have been riddled with so called "boy lovers" and victims of abuse, I'm not surprised, the english establishment was riddled with a pretty vicious sort of homosexuality for a long time and its almost a historic tradition.

    Its part of the reason that I dont buy a lot of the liberals notions about homosexuality being all sweetness and light, the history here has been much different to that, its a practice which, especially in its male incarnations, is much closer to sado-masochism and rape domination types. Homosexuals have been victimised and ostrachised but they've been villains too and its been a watchword for villainy for some reason, besides prejudice and hating.
    My experiences with the left (I do not know whether I'm still technically "left" or not these days) is not so much the portrayal of homosexuality as a harmless sport but portrays homosexuals themselves as everyday people who do not deserve the persecution they receive and homosexuality as merely the love of the same gender. I myself hold these views too. Perhaps I am wrong about the left as a whole as my association with it has been in the form of online discussion with more radical lefties who seemed to be good at critical thinking.

    As for gays being more interested in vice and villainy, I would say that's pure conjecture. Plus I ask the question whether a paedophile who goes for a minor of the same gender is technically gay or not. Would the gender of said minor be a factor in the decision making or would the age criteria supercede it?

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