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  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Il Morto Che Parla View Post
    Hopefully it will fail, Alex Jones told me that there will be a Soviet style tyranny if US citizens don't have guns to protect themselves from the state, and it will be "1776 all over again" if Obama tries.

    I am worried though, he doesn't seem to have heard of tanks, drones and landmines. He hd better start asking for these to be sold to citizens, otherwise the "1776 all over again" will be somewhat one sided.

    And anyway why has he/you guys gone so soft? doesn't the constituion garuantee the right to bear ARMS. Aren't those also ARMS???
    With an exquisitely crafted argument like that, how could any rational man disagree.


  2. #12
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    In the U.S. Constitution, the right "to bear arms" is tied to the maintenance of "a well-regulated militia". We can just require that anyone who purchases firearms serve in their state militia/National Guard. That will ensure adequate background checking, firearms training, and routine contact with a (hopefully) responsible group of individuals who might be able to spot trouble before it plays out in a catastrophic way. Oh, and we'll have lots of people armed and ready when the Canadians invade.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  3. #13
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    ...fuckin' Canada. They've been wanting to grab our land for centuries!
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    In the U.S. Constitution, the right "to bear arms" is tied to the maintenance of "a well-regulated militia". We can just require that anyone who purchases firearms serve in their state militia/National Guard. That will ensure adequate background checking, firearms training, and routine contact with a (hopefully) responsible group of individuals who might be able to spot trouble before it plays out in a catastrophic way. Oh, and we'll have lots of people armed and ready when the Canadians invade.
    SCOTUS ruled that the second provides an individual right to bear arms. And more to the point a militia is an armed group of individuals anyway, not some sort of quasi-military group. To have a militia, one must have the right to be armed individually.

  5. #15
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by _eric_ View Post
    I feel the same way about all of that. It's not surprising though...logic is a rare thing to find the higher up the political ladder you go.
    All the more reason to support localism and subsidiarity.
    Take the weakest thing in you
    And then beat the bastards with it
    And always hold on when you get love
    So you can let go when you give it

  6. #16
    Sweet Ocean Cloud SD45T-2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beorn View Post
    Speaking of the emotionally charged nature of the debate, I wish I could put Biden on ignore.

    "If these new laws save even one life then they will be worth it."



    What a ridculously horrible standard for whether a law should be passed. What an idiot.
    No kidding. With that mindset you can justify almost anything.
    1w2-6w5-3w2 so/sp

    "I took one those personality tests. It came back negative." - Dan Mintz

  7. #17
    Mojibake sprinkles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Il Morto Che Parla View Post
    Hopefully it will fail, Alex Jones told me that there will be a Soviet style tyranny if US citizens don't have guns to protect themselves from the state, and it will be "1776 all over again" if Obama tries.

    I am worried though, he doesn't seem to have heard of tanks, drones and landmines. He hd better start asking for these to be sold to citizens, otherwise the "1776 all over again" will be somewhat one sided.

    And anyway why has he/you guys gone so soft? doesn't the constituion garuantee the right to bear ARMS. Aren't those also ARMS???
    No. They aren't.

    It's ridiculous when people take this argument because most people don't give a shit about having a tank or a land mine. This is nearly a hidden ad hominem because a person would have to be some kind of stupid to think this meant tanks and bombs.

    People just want their guns. No more, no less.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by sprinkles View Post
    No. They aren't.
    Yes they are.

    It's ridiculous when people take this argument
    That's the point.

    because most people don't give a shit about having a tank or a land mine.
    Oh so the the interpretation of a constitution just depends on what "people" (who?) give a shit about then? And not about what it actually says?

    This is nearly a hidden ad hominem because a person would have to be some kind of stupid to think this meant tanks and bombs.
    Not ad hominem, it's called reductio ad absurdum. :P

    Some person would have to be some kind of fucktard to think there will be a tyranny if the US intorduced British style gun control.

    People just want their guns. No more, no less.
    Not all people, or there wouldn't be this debate. Maybe the ones whose friends and family were slaughtered as the price for "freedom" don't agree.

    Now let's deal with the arguemnt - do you think the guns you can buy have any effect on avoiding "tyranny"? You're going to start shooting cops and troops if they enforce a law you don't like? who do you think will win that "war" against the state?

  9. #19
    Mojibake sprinkles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Il Morto Che Parla View Post
    Yes they are.
    No, they aren't. You want them to be to make your argument work.

    Oh so the the interpretation of a constitution just depends on what "people" (who?) give a shit about then? And not about what it actually says?
    Yes.

    Not ad hominem, it's called reductio ad absurdum. :P
    Here's a reductio ad absurdum for you:
    How do you know that 'arms' does not mean a coat of arms, or the appendages attached to your shoulders? I mean it does say ARMS after all!

    Even though it says ARMS, that definition does not make sense, now does it? Neither does the definition that you are using.

    Some person would have to be some kind of fucktard to think there will be a tyranny if the US intorduced British style gun control.
    That would already be tyranny to some.

    Not all people, or there wouldn't be this debate. Maybe the ones whose friends and family were slaughtered as the price for "freedom" don't agree.
    You know what I meant!

    Now let's deal with the arguemnt - do you think the guns you can buy have any effect on avoiding "tyranny"?
    Yes.
    You're going to start shooting cops and troops if they enforce a law you don't like?
    If I had to, yes.
    who do you think will win that "war" against the state?
    Winning doesn't matter nearly as much as being able to take a stand if necessary. Winning is actually pretty irrelevant here.

  10. #20
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    http://oxforddictionaries.com/defini...sh/arms?q=arms

    Definition of arms
    plural noun
    1weapons; armaments:
    arms and ammunition

    So your government already denies you the "right to bear arms", or alternatively, the definition is non-specific and therefore guns could even be completely illegalized (not that I propose that) without this ammendment being violated.

    Either way, your interpretation of "the right to bear arms" fails.


    Quote Originally Posted by sprinkles View Post
    Winning doesn't matter nearly as much as being able to take a stand if necessary. Winning is actually pretty irrelevant here.
    Then save your money and take a stand without guns if you are happy losing either way.

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