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  1. #1
    Senior Member UniqueMixture's Avatar
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    For all that we have done, as a civilization, as individuals, the universe is not stable, and nor is any single thing within it. Stars consume themselves, the universe itself rushes apart, and we ourselves are composed of matter in constant flux. Colonies of cells in temporary alliance, replicating and decaying and housed within, an incandescent cloud of electrical impulses. This is reality, this is self knowledge, and the perception of it will, of course, make you dizzy.

  2. #2
    WALMART
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    17% of our expenses are for health care, compared to the rest of the globe's 12, on top of that. Tssk tssk, America.

  3. #3
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    To twist a meme to answer; freedom country is best country.

    Using a premise (ideal) as the primary determinant rather than effect (outcome) causes inefficiencies. It doesn't matter how many times you fix each issue that arises from the ideological premise, it will resurface. It's the nature of the issue that is the problem. So single payer, or insurance overhauls... none of it is very effective because they work in lockstep with all the other issues that come from the nature of the underlying cause(s). Legal system (malpractice), education system (cost of training), finance (lack of oversight)... all the way to availability of guns, police systems, war on drugs, lack of social nets, etc.

    There are specific and emergent problems; what the US faces in terms of life expectancy and medical system is an emergent problem.

  4. #4
    morose bourgeoisie
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    A friend of mine (who is French) quit his job with Microsoft to go back to being a full time artist. He has this freedom because he isn't expected to trade a 40-hour work week for the priveledge of buying healthcare through his employer.
    Well, I have health insurance. But I just got a bill for over $700 for two MRI's I had in November. I wasn't expecting that, but still have to pay it...at least I don't have to pay the total, which was over $7,000.
    We need state-sponsored healthcare in the USA.

  5. #5
    insert random title here Randomnity's Avatar
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    Many of these aren't so much related to the health care system in America as they are to other issues:

    infant mortality and low birth rate - poverty, lack of affordable health care, lack of education, drugs
    injury and homicide rates - poverty, drugs, "culture of violence"
    teen pregnancy and sexually transmitted infections including HIV - religious/abstinence-only education, poverty, lack of education
    drug-related deaths - lack of care for drug users, "war on drugs", poverty
    obesity and its complement conditions diabetes and heart disease, chronic lung disease and disability - poverty, lack of education, lack of affordable health care
    Americans are seven times more likely to die of homicides and 20 times more likely to die from shootings than their peers in comparable countries. - "comparable" countries that have as much of a gun culture? I doubt it.

    Better health care would help decrease the harm of some of these issues, definitely, but I think looking at the root causes is more relevant.

    I tried to find the actual report but followed 3 links and didn't get anywhere.p wait, here it is: http://iom.edu/~/media/Files/Report%...spectiveRB.pdf
    -end of thread-

  6. #6
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randomnity View Post
    Americans are seven times more likely to die of homicides and 20 times more likely to die from shootings than their peers in comparable countries. - "comparable" countries that have as much of a gun culture? I doubt it.
    Agreed, but in this case comparable would likely be "1st" world countries, in theory regressing out the core socio-economic factors (poverty, crime, infrastructure). Unfortunately we don't have a comparable country with the same gun culture, only similar countries without.

  7. #7
    Senior Member LEGERdeMAIN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randomnity View Post
    drug-related deaths - lack of care for drug users, "war on drugs", poverty
    I would add prohibition to this list. Prohibition means there are no regulations controlling the contents of drugs(http://www.time.com/time/health/arti...955112,00.html), which leads to health issues not observed in users of the pure form of cocaine, heroin, etc.
    “Some people will tell you that slow is good – but I’m here to tell you that fast is better. I’ve always believed this, in spite of the trouble it’s caused me. Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba…”


  8. #8
    Superwoman Red Herring's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randomnity View Post
    Many of these aren't so much related to the health care system in America as they are to other issues:

    infant mortality and low birth rate - poverty, lack of affordable health care, lack of education, drugs
    injury and homicide rates - poverty, drugs, "culture of violence"
    teen pregnancy and sexually transmitted infections including HIV - religious/abstinence-only education, poverty, lack of education
    drug-related deaths - lack of care for drug users, "war on drugs", poverty
    obesity and its complement conditions diabetes and heart disease, chronic lung disease and disability - poverty, lack of education, lack of affordable health care
    Americans are seven times more likely to die of homicides and 20 times more likely to die from shootings than their peers in comparable countries. - "comparable" countries that have as much of a gun culture? I doubt it.

    Better health care would help decrease the harm of some of these issues, definitely, but I think looking at the root causes is more relevant.

    I tried to find the actual report but followed 3 links and didn't get anywhere.p wait, here it is: http://iom.edu/~/media/Files/Report%...spectiveRB.pdf
    +1

    I also think that some, probably many, of those root causes like poverty and the culture of violence (which I believe to a certain degree goes hand in hand with a slightly lower value of human life in general), etc are the backside of often praised values that do indeed have a lot going for them and contributed to making the coutry great. They seem to be the price to be paid for the American interpretation of what contitutes liberty and individualism.
    The good life is one inspired by love and guided by knowledge. Neither love without knowledge, nor knowledge without love can produce a good life. - Bertrand Russell
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  10. #10
    Temporal Mechanic. Lexicon's Avatar
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    Aw, and here I was hoping I'd stumbled upon a thread lecturing us about all of our fast food chains.
    03/23 06:06:58 EcK: lex
    03/23 06:06:59 EcK: lex
    03/23 06:21:34 Nancynobullets: LEXXX *sacrifices a first born*
    03/23 06:21:53 Nancynobullets: We summon yooouuu
    03/23 06:29:07 Lexicon: I was sleeping!



    04/25 04:20:35 Patches: Don't listen to lex. She wants to birth a litter of kittens. She doesnt get to decide whats creepy

    02/16 23:49:38 ygolo: Lex is afk
    02/16 23:49:45 Cimarron: she's doing drugs with Jack

    03/05 19:27:41 Time: You can't make chat morbid. Lex does it naturally.

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