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  1. #11
    Senior Member UniqueMixture's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    To twist a meme to answer; freedom country is best country.

    Using a premise (ideal) as the primary determinant rather than effect (outcome) causes inefficiencies. It doesn't matter how many times you fix each issue that arises from the ideological premise, it will resurface. It's the nature of the issue that is the problem. So single payer, or insurance overhauls... none of it is very effective because they work in lockstep with all the other issues that come from the nature of the underlying cause(s). Legal system (malpractice), education system (cost of training), finance (lack of oversight)... all the way to availability of guns, police systems, war on drugs, lack of social nets, etc.

    There are specific and emergent problems; what the US faces in terms of life expectancy and medical system is an emergent problem.
    That's why we need a benevolent dictator
    For all that we have done, as a civilization, as individuals, the universe is not stable, and nor is any single thing within it. Stars consume themselves, the universe itself rushes apart, and we ourselves are composed of matter in constant flux. Colonies of cells in temporary alliance, replicating and decaying and housed within, an incandescent cloud of electrical impulses. This is reality, this is self knowledge, and the perception of it will, of course, make you dizzy.

  2. #12
    Freaking Ratchet Rail Tracer's Avatar
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    No surprise whatsoever.

    @Lexicon Fat Country of the world. Mexico pales in comparison to us! We're number 1!

  3. #13
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UniqueMixture View Post
    That's why we need a benevolent dictator
    It is among the most effective, hands down, at many organisational levels. The problem is the checks and balances - systems outlast their creators. Singapore comes to mind as an incredible example, actually.

  4. #14
    IRL is not real Cimarron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Herring View Post
    +1

    I also think that some, probably many, of those root causes like poverty and the culture of violence (which I believe to a certain degree goes hand in hand with a slightly lower value of human life in general), etc are the backside of often praised values that do indeed have a lot going for them and contributed to making the coutry great. They seem to be the price to be paid for the American interpretation of what contitutes liberty and individualism.
    Exactly. I guess.
    You can't spell "justice" without ISTJ.

  5. #15
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    In U.S. health care, making a profit, defensive medicine, and adherance to mandated procedures all come before patient outcomes. Small wonder we have such results.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  6. #16
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    I really don't think profit should be the main goal of any healthcare establishment. It costs too much to train doctors, use equipment, and get help.

    I don't know all of the reasons Americans are sick... But I know that our current system WILL go to some sort of government-sponsored system simply for the fact that this scenario happens to people way too often: They get taken to the ER via an ambulance because someone called 911 upon witnessing a car accident. Turns out they're fine, some whiplash and a bit of bruising and a bit of shock from the crash occurring. The ER statement services says, "If you have insurance, the bill will be $7,500 but you can bill that to insurance. If you do not, we'll charge you $1,300 and you can make payments." The gross disparity between insurance companies, hospitals, and other third-party vendors all seeking to pay as little as possible and make as much as possible is what is going to push for universal healthcare whether that's the best thing for America or not.

    I think some hybrid system where preventative care, elderly, children, pregnant women, and emergencies are covered and leaving the rest to regulated medical insurances would be best, but that's my personal opinion on the matter. Some working people are healthy, some are not. But I think most can agree that they want the elderly to live comfortably and children to not be taped up with pillows.
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  7. #17
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    You have an oligopolistic cartel (which quickly becomes monpolistic in the case of emergencies requiring treatment in loco) offering a service with strongly inelastic demand. It's no wonder that customers don't obtain a sizeably good benfit/costs ratio.
    ENTj 7-3-8 sx/sp

  8. #18
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    I don't know all of the reasons Americans are sick...
    I suspect part of it is that our culture does not encourage a healthy lifestyle. It is driven by companies whose profit motive leads them to encourage instant gratification, which they then satisfy with junk food, junk clothes, and junk entertainment. Just look at the layout of supermarkets and relative costs of produce vs. packaged foods. Yes, there is a small subculture that values health and fitness, but the majority are couch potatoes who have been conditioned to avoid effort and accept packaging over substance.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  9. #19
    movin melodies kiddykat's Avatar
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    Considering the high level of stress and gap in economic disparity, I'm not surprised.

    Which country to flee to?

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Capitalism kills is my thought. Jury's not out on that one.
    The problem with that idea is that the US unfortunately is no longer a capitalist country, but a corporatist one. The two have very little in common and i think corporatism has a lot to do with most of our countries problems.

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