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  1. #251
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    There's a reason why people find Milton's Satan, with his "better to reign in Hell than serve in Heaven," to be one of the most compelling characters of English literature. One person's perfection is another's oppression.

    If Hell was so preferred then it would not have such a negative connotation throughout history.

    It is healthy to appreciate trials and tribulations as part of being human, but my point is that it isn't necessary for being happy, and is actually usually antithesis to it.


    Anyone who thinks otherwise might not have known anything but difficulty. And cannot imagine that it is possible to feel good most of the time.
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    The more one loves God, the more it is that having nothing in the world means everything, and the less one loves God, the more it is that having everything in the world means nothing.

    Do not resist an evil person, but to him who strikes you on the one cheek, offer also the other. ~Matthew 5:39

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  2. #252
    No moss growing on me Giggly's Avatar
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    Whoa. That's very deep, Afro.

    I think that getting cheated on is deeply deeply scarring. I've seen it's effects on my sister and my best friend. I don't think they are really aware of all the ways it's effected them either.

    I can't say that I agree that men are worthless or unnecessary, but they have their faults, just as women do.

  3. #253
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AphroditeGoneAwry View Post
    If Hell was so preferred then it would not have such a negative connotation throughout history.

    It is healthy to appreciate trials and tribulations as part of being human, but my point is that it isn't necessary for being happy, and is actually usually antithesis to it.


    Anyone who thinks otherwise might not have known anything but difficulty. And cannot imagine that it is possible to feel good most of the time.
    I say the opposite. Without those trials and tribulations, you get those two blandly unpleasant French words: ennui and anomie. It's the struggle, and the meaning that struggle has, which brings happiness and contentment.

  4. #254
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    I guess we'll have to agree to disagree then.
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    The more one loves God, the more it is that having nothing in the world means everything, and the less one loves God, the more it is that having everything in the world means nothing.

    Do not resist an evil person, but to him who strikes you on the one cheek, offer also the other. ~Matthew 5:39

    songofmary.wordpress.com


  5. #255
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AphroditeGoneAwry View Post
    I emphatically disagree with the notion that we must hurt to grow. That we must suffer to thrive. That is like the "no pain, no gain" mentality and we know that just isn't true anymore.
    I think if we don't allow ourselves the full range of feelings and emotions - both negative and positive - then in fact, it does hinder us from the full range of human experience and yes growth. It's natural human behavior to avoid pain. On the other hand, if for example you suppress grief, you don't do yourself any favors in the long run. There is no reason to make ourselves miserable for no reason but bad things do happen and this is not heaven.

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  6. #256
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    I think if we don't allow ourselves the full range of feelings and emotions - both negative and positive - then in fact, it does hinder us from the full range of human experience and yes growth. It's natural human behavior to avoid pain. On the other hand, if for example you suppress grief, you don't do yourself any favors in the long run. There is no reason to make ourselves miserable for no reason but bad things do happen and this is not heaven.

    Yes. But. My main assertion is that conflict is not necessary for being happy.

    If we take Maslow's hierarchy of needs, I don't think we see 'conflict' anywhere on it.

    Conflict is a part of life, but not one that is necessary, simply one that is reality. It's more a hindrance to being happy we have to work around, solve, or go through. We think of it as necessary because it is so prevalent in our world. But conflict is antithesis to God and God is the ultimate happiness. (and heaven exists wherever God is, even that is in us in some small degree as our soul).


    It is likely that conflict might make a certain individual happy. Or that it is necessary for you. Or someone else to feel happy. I could see if one is raised with a high level of conflict, that to lose all conflict might seem to be a lack. This is a form of trauma bonding, or needing high risk behavior to feel alive. It usually stems from trauma. Or maybe you are just an 8.

    But I challenge emphatically the assertion that conflict is collectively necessary for gain. And indeed is counter to it in most cases.

    Think about it.



    And emotions are just about keeping us on track. That is it. And the truest track is God's track. Feelings and thoughts are our ego-fixations, bases upon beliefs we've laid down in our lifetime. Emotions are deeper and are our unconscious' way of setting us straight. If the truest emotion is closest to God, that would be love. And pure love. Not some perverted love. Usually when one loves, and is loved in return, one feels accepted and good throughout their body and mind. Conflict stifles love.

    God gives us challenges to make us pure like gold. But the goal is to get to a better and better place where life isn't so hard. The more we are in God's path, the happier, or more conflict-free we will be.
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    The more one loves God, the more it is that having nothing in the world means everything, and the less one loves God, the more it is that having everything in the world means nothing.

    Do not resist an evil person, but to him who strikes you on the one cheek, offer also the other. ~Matthew 5:39

    songofmary.wordpress.com


  7. #257
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AphroditeGoneAwry View Post
    Yes. But. My main assertion is that conflict is not necessary for being happy.

    If we take Maslow's hierarchy of needs, I don't think we see 'conflict' anywhere on it.

    Conflict is a part of life, but not one that is necessary, simply one that is reality. It's more a hindrance to being happy we have to work around, solve, or go through. We think of it as necessary because it is so prevalent in our world. But conflict is antithesis to God and God is the ultimate happiness. (and heaven exists wherever God is, even that is in us in some small degree as our soul).


    It is likely that conflict might make a certain individual happy. Or that it is necessary for you. Or someone else to feel happy. I could see if one is raised with a high level of conflict, that to lose all conflict might seem to be a lack. This is a form of trauma bonding, or needing high risk behavior to feel alive. It usually stems from trauma. Or maybe you are just an 8.

    But I challenge emphatically the assertion that conflict is collectively necessary for gain. And indeed is counter to it in most cases.
    It does depend on the person. I confront issues. It's a central aspect of my personality. Whether or not that has anything to do with trauma at a younger age is something I do not know. I do know that I can't stand for things to be unsettled or swept under a rug. It has nothing to do with needing high risk behavior (which does not appeal to me at all). It's just better to get things out in the open, get your feelings out, talk through things and then move on rather than bottle things up and letting resentments fester. As a 9, I can see how that point of view may not resonate with you.

    Quote Originally Posted by AphroditeGoneAwry View Post
    And emotions are just about keeping us on track. That is it. And the truest track is God's track. Feelings and thoughts are our ego-fixations, bases upon beliefs we've laid down in our lifetime. Emotions are deeper and are our unconscious' way of setting us straight. If the truest emotion is closest to God, that would be love. And pure love. Not some perverted love. Usually when one loves, and is loved in return, one feels accepted and good throughout their body and mind. Conflict stifles love.
    Emotions are more than things to keep us on track (that sounds like Fi actually...). They fuel our passion for life and our motivation.

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  8. #258
    Happy Dancer uumlau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AphroditeGoneAwry View Post
    Conflict is a part of life, but not one that is necessary, simply one that is reality.
    This is sophistry. Try this on for size: "Happiness is a part of life, but not one that is necessary, simply one that is reality."

    Or "Dogs are a part of life, but not one that is necessary, simply one that is reality."

    Any noun that refers to a non-fictional entity will work, here.

    It's more a hindrance to being happy we have to work around, solve, or go through.
    Is it a hindrance to happiness, or is it the result of different people having different ideas of what should be? Different ideas of what will make them happy?

    We think of it as necessary because it is so prevalent in our world. But conflict is antithesis to God and God is the ultimate happiness. (and heaven exists wherever God is, even that is in us in some small degree as our soul).
    Your reasoning is tendentious, here, and it is unclear to which version of God you happen to subscribe. Google "theodicy" for a thorough discussion of the issues you disregard.

    Conflict is not the antithesis of happiness, certainly not in a strict sense, and I find it hard to see that as true even with a lot of leeway in interpretation. Happiness is not found by avoiding conflict or finding peace. Read up on Enneagram 9 integration/disintegration. Happiness is found (in part) by seeing conflict for what it is: neither good nor evil, but rather a set of choices. If you make the choices that are right for you (which doesn't imply selfish choices, but does imply that it's in sync with who you are, with how God made you), then you find happiness whether or not those choices result in "conflict."

    And this exchange is entirely tangential to the point about whether conflict helps a society grow. I wouldn't say that conflict helps directly, but rather that conflict is a side effect of cultures and peoples interacting. The interaction of diverse peoples is what causes growth. As Newton put it, "If I have seen further it is because I stood on the shoulders of giants." In this aspect, I would say you'd be more correct to assert that conflict doesn't help growth, and likely hinders it, but that's a more temporary result of societies interacting. In general, they share knowledge and wealth and become more than they would have been without any interaction.
    An argument is two people sharing their ignorance.

    A discussion is two people sharing their understanding, even when they disagree.

  9. #259
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    I say the opposite. Without those trials and tribulations, you get those two blandly unpleasant French words: ennui and anomie. It's the struggle, and the meaning that struggle has, which brings happiness and contentment.
    ennui I know but anomie ? Did you say anemic and meant that you are a vampire who sucks life out of other people ?

    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post
    This is sophistry. Try this on for size: "Happiness is a part of life, but not one that is necessary, simply one that is reality."

    Or "Dogs are a part of life, but not one that is necessary, simply one that is reality."
    I wouldnt compare it that way, thats like comparing a 3 Ghz desktop PC with a calculator. Humans were, are and always will be to a certain amount be slaves to their hormones, no matter how rational they think they are, one just aint detached from that chemical body of boiling irrationality.

    What I do agree tho with is that one shouldnt give the notion to "be happy" too much credit, cause at the end of the day its all autosuggestive. You can be happy living in a Palace but you can be happy as a bum as well. That sounds very cliche, but I've found that cliches often aint too wrong.
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  10. #260
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    I don't know if this has been answered yet, but are the worthless women getting a free pass?
    Bellison uncorked a flood of horrible profanity, which, translated, meant, "This is extremely unusual."

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