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  1. #221
    Senior Member Tiltyred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jixmixfix View Post
    Average works too I guess, I don't know I'm not encouraging woman to be more promiscuous just kidding around though. I do think the dickhead guys get all the attention they get away with treating women like objects.
    It's all good. You don't want dickhead guys treating you seriously anyway. May as well treat them like objects right back. That way it all works out.

  2. #222
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    I got in trouble for playing to win in games that weren't supposed to have winners
    That's as ridiculous as me getting in trouble for laughing in class. Some people have no sense of humor.

  3. #223
    Happy Dancer uumlau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AphroditeGoneAwry View Post
    So I was out tonight. And Kim, the ISTP waitress, sat with me because I was the only patron in the restaurant. And we got to talking. She is between men, and seems like she'd fit the 'jaded-woman' bill. I told her my thoughts today on men being worse than women, and she disagreed with me. She said women were just as bad as men regarding lying and being bitches and stuff like that. I said maybe I was just a jaded woman, and she said she was more jaded because she's gone past just men being bad into women being bad too. Then she said she could only think of one or two or one 'good' people that she knew.


    So I got to thinking that maybe I'm just friends with a LOT of awesome women, a disproportionate amount perhaps. And so it's not that the men are so bad, but that my women friends/acquaintances are just that good. Kim also thought maybe that it's just our perception, that we don't want to think our girlfriends are bad....Which could be true.



    I am not sorry for this thread. It was good to work through this with you, Type C folk. Should I be concerned that I don't know a better representative sample of society? I guess I can only do what I can do, and can only serve who come my way. Sorry if men got the brunt today. It's not that I'm totally changing my mind based on what Kim said, but mostly I am. I didn't believe y'all because, well, I have learned not to really trust everything you say. And this makes me sad.



    Love,

    ~A
    Some thoughts ...

    Most people are more wonderful than you give them credit for. What I think happens, though, is that especially in intimate relationships, it can be remarkably difficult to mesh different wordlviews/understandings into a shared understanding. It isn't that everyone (men or women) is somehow "bad", it's that learning to get along well with others is just plain difficult, and it's particularly difficult when two people are intimate enough to be accidentally stepping on each others' toes all the time. Sometimes we forget to draw boundaries (or feel guilty about drawing boundaries and thus refrain), and let the other person walk all over us, when that's usually never our loved one's intention. And sometimes we let the small things fester for a long time, so that giving into a big temptation to break trust feels even easier; that we aren't getting enough out of our current arrangement(s), and thus looking into new arrangements is only natural.

    But no, overall, people don't suck. They're mostly good, and mostly honest, and only a few are really intent on taking advantage of good-hearted suckers. The trick is to see them as they are, not in terms of our personal idealizations. Yes, our idealizations are beautiful in and of themselves, but real people are so much more interesting, and can be good in so many amazing and wonderful ways that you we haven't thought of ourselves. It's why love opens our hearts: we see the good, and the "bad", and the bad turns out to mostly be just messed-up and misguided good (sometimes really messed up, in ways that cannot be fixed, which might be regarded as "true evil", but that's a different philosophical discussion), and the good can be good in ways that we never imagined. If you can see someone, both their good and their bad, their prides and their shames, all together, and love that person, that helps you see your own mess-ups and your own goodness in the same light. And it helps you to figure out how to find more good, and resolve much of the bad.

    (None of this to say that there aren't cultural/societal differences that make wars/violence inevitable, in spite of most people being good - differing cultures have as many difficulties trying to get along side-by-side as individuals do trying to live intimately with each other.)
    An argument is two people sharing their ignorance.

    A discussion is two people sharing their understanding, even when they disagree.

  4. #224
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    That's as ridiculous as me getting in trouble for laughing in class. Some people have no sense of humor.
    laughing?!?! seriously?!?!?!? what the fuck! laughter is an involuntary reaction for goodness sake!

    I never got in trouble for laughing, but I'm guessing that it might be because that was one of the more innocuous things I ever did in class
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  5. #225
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    With the number of one parent families, and the percentage of those that lack a father, many of our country's son's are never taught how to be a man.

    It seems that since the growth of "everyone's self esteem matters/there are no winners and losers" in the 90's, things have just been getting worse for us. It might have started sooner, but that was the first time I was cognizant of something wrong.

    My generation, and the succeeding ones, seem to have been coddled more than raised.

    Society has failed us.

  6. #226
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    With the number of one parent families, and the percentage of those that lack a father, many of our country's son's are never taught how to be a man.

    It seems that since the growth of "everyone's self esteem matters/there are no winners and losers" in the 90's, things have just been getting worse for us. It might have started sooner, but that was the first time I was cognizant of something wrong.

    My generation, and the succeeding ones, seem to have been coddled more than raised.

    Society has failed us.
    I think some kind of dysfunctional thing happened with the raising of the Baby Boomers, TBH. Maybe their Depression Era parents overcompensated or something? No idea. But genX children of Baby Boomers were kind of left to our own devices while our parents tried to figure out . . . something. The ones that had kids later or had two sets of kids seem to tend to helicopter parent their Millennials.

    I'm not sure what the trend will turn out to have been for Millennieal children of GenX parents, which is what my kids are. Neither my husband nor I were raised with a dad, so we have more of a clue how to raise our daughters than our sons and, to some degree, it shows.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  7. #227
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheStarchDefenders View Post
    Seems like people get to putting on their rose colored glasses when looking at how things used to be when it really seems they are just pulling forth their perception from media/entertainment about what it was like when that really wasn't it at all.
    Exactly. Some people mistook all those times they were watching Leave It To Beaver as "reality". When just down their street, a black man got a broken bottle in his throat for being seen kissing a white woman. Or some drunk sailors from out of town threw a homosexual or a bum off the bridge. And meanwhile, dad is belting mom in the other room.

  8. #228

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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    I think some kind of dysfunctional thing happened with the raising of the Baby Boomers, TBH. Maybe their Depression Era parents overcompensated or something? No idea. But genX children of Baby Boomers were kind of left to our own devices while our parents tried to figure out . . . something. The ones that had kids later or had two sets of kids seem to tend to helicopter parent their Millennials.

    I'm not sure what the trend will turn out to have been for Millennieal children of GenX parents, which is what my kids are. Neither my husband nor I were raised with a dad, so we have more of a clue how to raise our daughters than our sons and, to some degree, it shows.
    My GenX parents were sort of helicopterish too. My mom taught us songs as kids so that if we were ever kidnapped we would know our address/name(how to spell)/zipcode/state. What you said about Boomers parenting GenX stands in my case as well. My parents were kind of left to roam when they were young. No one ever even told them to go to college or what to do with themselves. So they got married early and had 3 kids. Ended up getting degrees in their 30s, but they did seem to be abandoned to a degree, and it seemed to make them want to protect the hell out of us. My anecdote for the day.
    Dirt Farmer

  9. #229
    redundant descriptor netzealot's Avatar
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    First off, I can confirm that there are a lot of men which are seemingly unable to stay committed, do the right thing, etc. How do I know? Because I have had my share of relationships (all monogamously, and I am married now and love it) and in every one I had a major hurdle of mistrust being projected onto me to deal with.

    I will be honest, though, it is probably the thing which has worn me the most in life... the mindgames and emotional abuse all out of a mis-guided sense of distrust based on the behavior of a vast majority of men whom I can really say I am different from. If I didn't really see something special about the character of the woman I have been in a long term relationship with in the past, then it wouldn't be worth it. I'd expect all but the strongest and most selfless men to simply give up out of sheer emotional exhaustion.

    Then, there are a large portion of what I would call conditionally committed men... these are men who come off as faithful simply because they are desperate and feel like they have no other option. Personally, I think people like this are no better simply for lack of opportunity.

    It's not terrifically rare to be an exception, though. I can think of a handful of faithful husbands who would never cheat. I haven't been married as long as they have, but their lives don't seem to suggest it's going to get much easier for me. Oh well. The reasons I do it transcend me.

  10. #230
    Senior Member Elisius's Avatar
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    Admittedly I only read the first five pages of this thread so maybe this is already said; but here's what I think I should add:
    We need genetic diversity, this is the reason humans, and every other sexed species, has a 50/50 ratio of male to female. If we had 100 women and 1 man. Sure he could have kids with all 100. and they'd all be half-siblings, and two generations from then with that 100/1 ratio and we'd all have buck teeth and flippers.
    A mind that is stretched by a new experience can never go back to its old dimensions. - Oliver Wendell Holmes Jr.

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