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  1. #1
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Default Fiscal cliff deal.

    Technically nothing is in yet, but the vote should come sometime this morning.
    Tentative Deal Is Reached to Raise Taxes on the Wealthy

    If this is what happens, I'm really not impressed. It put so many things off. It's going to be another protracted negotiation over every individual piece of policy that will consume the whole year. The Obama administration had all the leverage, why agree to something both so incomplete and so short of what they wanted? Had we gone over the cliff the Republicans would have been putty in Democratic hands on tax rates. I'm so tired of stop gaps and half measures. Those things are going to collapse out from under the USA some day.

    I hope the Democrats are aware that everything from here on out will be even harder to run past the Republicans. There will be less pressure on them and more evidence that Obama ultimately rewards obstruction and threats, even if just a little bit. If anyone cares to point out that a great deal of conservatives already feel like this is a concession, I say that's exactly my point. There will never be any placating these people.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  2. #2
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Well, the only alternative is putting the R's out on a chopping block and kill them like Louis XVI or the Czar. I'm not sure I'm ready for that though. Might as well just let it play out like this.

  3. #3
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    think alot of people are starting to feel that way about them.


    i have this haunting feeling that obama is going to give in.
    "I'm not in this world to live up to your expectations and you're not in this world to live up to mine. "
    -Bruce Lee

  4. #4
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    I don't want to think that about them. I'm just saying that's the only alternative if you want to complain about compromise. You're either out for blood, or you accept deals like this. And this isn't really a situation to be out for blood with. Maybe a lot of people disagree, but relatively speaking, it could be a helluva lot worse. Those situations I mentioned above (French and Soviet Revolution) were bonafide clusterfucks.

  5. #5
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    I don't want to think that about them. I'm just saying that's the only alternative if you want to complain about compromise. You're either out for blood, or you accept deals like this. And this isn't really a situation to be out for blood with. Maybe a lot of people disagree, but relatively speaking, it could be a helluva lot worse. Those situations I mentioned above (French and Soviet Revolution) were bonafide clusterfucks.
    No, that's a false dichotomy. He was in a clear position to get a better deal and that's all there is to it. It's the proper use of leverage in a negotiation, and it would not only have been better for Obama politically but better for the country economically.

    Playing the cards in your hand to get the most you want out of a negotiation is a far cry from a revolution.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  6. #6
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    No, that's a false dichotomy. He was in a clear position to get a better deal and that's all there is to it. It's the proper use of leverage in a negotiation, and it would not only have been better for Obama politically but better for the country economically.

    Playing the cards in your hand to get the most you want out of a negotiation is a far cry from a revolution.
    If you want to rewind time back a month (or more), sure, it could have been extensive. When you have less than a day left.. not so much. What's done is done. The priority just became about saving the middle class. There's a lot of reasons to compromise just for that.

  7. #7
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    I swear we couldn't get much sillier if we had Rush Limbaugh vs John Stewart as the House, Bill O'Reilly vs Stephen Colbert as the Senate, and some random news anchor as President. It's like we're running a reality TV show instead of a country.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    If you want to rewind time back a month (or more), sure, it could have been extensive. When you have less than a day left.. not so much. What's done is done. The priority just became about saving the middle class. There's a lot of reasons to compromise just for that.
    +1

    Accept the past. Live for the present. Look forward to the future.
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    "As our island of knowledge grows, so does the shore of our ignorance." John Wheeler
    "[A] scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy." Richard Feynman
    "[P]etabytes of [] data is not the same thing as understanding emergent mechanisms and structures." Jim Crutchfield

  9. #9
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    If you want to rewind time back a month (or more), sure, it could have been extensive. When you have less than a day left.. not so much. What's done is done. The priority just became about saving the middle class. There's a lot of reasons to compromise just for that.
    Saved from what? There are vast problems that we keep putting off which are bigger than those taxes.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  10. #10
    Senior Member Little_Sticks's Avatar
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    "If you're not with me, you're against me."

    I've found that's what being a Democrat has come to mostly symbolize nowadays. That said, in showing that to be untrue in his case, I'm really glad Obama managed to compromise with the Republicans; I won't take sides on claiming who wasn't willing to compromise because I don't think anyone who seeks to be impartial should or could, but the fact that two sides can come together means future problems can get dealt with and Obama can act like and be a legitimate President. This makes me very happy and seems like a really good thing. I just wish now they would release what they agreed upon exactly, as I can't find it anywhere.

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