User Tag List

12 Last

Results 1 to 10 of 11

  1. #1
    Mojibake sprinkles's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Posts
    2,968

    Default Will the dollar ACTUALLY collapse?

    Will it?

    Not asking whether it is falling, because it definitely is doing that. But will it actually collapse? Some say not.

    Some say that Greece collapsed because it didn't issue its own currency.

    Some say that the dollar will not collapse because countries that rely on exports (e.g. China and Japan) depend on it too much. They want the US to have buying power, which they will not have if the dollar falls below their own currency in value. This is why China is so interested in banking for the US. They are moving away from the dollar but not abandoning it entirely just yet.

    It is also said that there must be another currency to run to in order to cause the dollar to collapse. What would that be?


    On the other side of this though, is that most US debt is held internally. So even though other countries definitely do not want the dollar to crash, they might not be able to prevent it from doing so.

  2. #2
    Freaking Ratchet Rail Tracer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    3,041

    Default

    - It will only collapse when people no longer see a value in it. All in all, I think the outcome depends on how many people are using it, their respective economies, and their worth to people.

    That next currency that people will flock to will most likely be the next highly used currency:

    The Pound may be worth more than the dollar, but it isn't overly used.

    The Euro, if it can survive its political weaknesses right now, MIGHT be the next alternative.

    China and India, although having significant numbers when it comes to their users in their particular countries, not the best currency. As you have said, there is a relationship between the U.S. and China. If one falls, so does the other. If China and India decide to pull off from the U.S. and import+export somewhere else, that is when that link is changed.

    - Not entirely true about Greece. It can be stated that Greece is unable to print money without the IMF. But what is plaguing Greece itself is the continued austerity imposed on it (tax hikes and cuts that we might be implementing here in the U.S....) However, Greece was already in a slightly bad position before it was admitted to the EU. If taxes were paid in 2008 by the wealthy, much of the debt they have incurred would of been paid off.

    In that same line, Iceland collapse because of its own failing private banks, and they have collapsed real hard since 2008. They are doing better, at least better than Greece (and even Spain) at the moment. They are still stuck on repaying debt to other countries like the U.K. even though the debt incurred are all private bank creations.

    What both Greece and Iceland lack is the pure size of the people using their currency, and that is the reason why the U.S. dollar is still afloat. If people do not see value with the dollar, then it'll collapse and people will move towards a better suited currency.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    MBTI
    ESTJ
    Enneagram
    9 so/sx
    Posts
    21,630

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sprinkles View Post
    Will it?

    Not asking whether it is falling, because it definitely is doing that. But will it actually collapse? Some say not.

    Some say that Greece collapsed because it didn't issue its own currency.

    Some say that the dollar will not collapse because countries that rely on exports (e.g. China and Japan) depend on it too much. They want the US to have buying power, which they will not have if the dollar falls below their own currency in value. This is why China is so interested in banking for the US. They are moving away from the dollar but not abandoning it entirely just yet.

    It is also said that there must be another currency to run to in order to cause the dollar to collapse. What would that be?


    On the other side of this though, is that most US debt is held internally. So even though other countries definitely do not want the dollar to crash, they might not be able to prevent it from doing so.
    I wonder what the alternative consumer base will be for the Chinese?

    I mean they are not likely to simply collapse themsleves if the US does, they are likely to look to the next available option instead.

  4. #4
    Mojibake sprinkles's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Posts
    2,968

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I wonder what the alternative consumer base will be for the Chinese?

    I mean they are not likely to simply collapse themsleves if the US does, they are likely to look to the next available option instead.
    Hong Kong and Japan are their second best customers. Followed by South Korea.

    Saying that China will not be hit because they can look at the next available option is like saying the US will not be hit because we can look at the next available option.

    The whole idea with collapse is that it happens faster than anyone can adjust for it. We're not talking about a slide or a fall, we're talking collapse. People are saying collapse that's on the order of what happened with Zimbabwe where inflation went up 11,200,000% - yes that is eleven million percent. In the end their exchange was something about 250,000 Zimbabwe dollars for $1 USD.

    China cares so much about this that it actually devalued its own Yuan from time to time to keep it from catching up to the USD too much.

  5. #5
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    MBTI
    ESTJ
    Enneagram
    9 so/sx
    Posts
    21,630

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sprinkles View Post
    Hong Kong and Japan are their second best customers. Followed by South Korea.

    Saying that China will not be hit because they can look at the next available option is like saying the US will not be hit because we can look at the next available option.

    The whole idea with collapse is that it happens faster than anyone can adjust for it. We're not talking about a slide or a fall, we're talking collapse. People are saying collapse that's on the order of what happened with Zimbabwe where inflation went up 11,200,000% - yes that is eleven million percent. In the end their exchange was something about 250,000 Zimbabwe dollars for $1 USD.

    China cares so much about this that it actually devalued its own Yuan from time to time to keep it from catching up to the USD too much.
    Well the democratic deficit to a bunch of objecivist bankers is going to hit home eventually.

  6. #6
    Mojibake sprinkles's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Posts
    2,968

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Well the democratic deficit to a bunch of objecivist bankers is going to hit home eventually.
    Yes, but will 'hitting home' actually entail a disaster collapse with hyperinflation and a run on the dollar such that there's rioting in the streets?

    Is it going to be just sudden and disastrous like that? I find it hard to believe because a currency doesn't just collapse unless people cannot or do not want to use it effectively.

    If they can do something to show that they are dealing with the deficit and halt the credit rating decline, then the dollar should just continue on its usual slide the way it always has.

    The deficit being the $1 trillion in the red per year, not the debt. The US will always operate on debt. The deficit means that the debt is going up faster than it is being paid which definitely is a problem right now.

  7. #7
    Senior Member King sns's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    MBTI
    enfp
    Enneagram
    6w7 sp/sx
    Socionics
    IEE
    Posts
    6,748

    Default

    I'm going to have nightmares about 2 percent of my money jumping off the fiscal cliff, a penny at a time :/. Lincoln faces mangled in the coppery blood bath in the river below.
    06/13 10:51:03 five sounds: you!!!
    06/13 10:51:08 shortnsweet: no you!!
    06/13 10:51:12 shortnsweet: go do your things and my things too!
    06/13 10:51:23 five sounds: oh hell naw
    06/13 10:51:55 shortnsweet: !!!!
    06/13 10:51:57 shortnsweet: (cries)
    06/13 10:52:19 RiftsWRX: You two are like furbies stuck in a shoe box

    My Nohari
    My Johari
    by sns.

  8. #8
    Mojibake sprinkles's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Posts
    2,968

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by shortnsweet View Post
    I'm going to have nightmares about 2 percent of my money jumping off the fiscal cliff, a penny at a time :/. Lincoln faces mangled in the coppery blood bath in the river below.
    From what I've heard just now, the cliff isn't a cliff anymore. They're talking about a tax deal that would supposedly raise about $600 billion. That doesn't solve the whole deficit but is a good sized chunk of it.

    Yeah more taxes suck but something has to happen. That'll be the impact. A lot of people don't realize that printing money is effectively a stealth tax to begin with.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    MBTI
    ESTJ
    Enneagram
    9 so/sx
    Posts
    21,630

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sprinkles View Post
    Yes, but will 'hitting home' actually entail a disaster collapse with hyperinflation and a run on the dollar such that there's rioting in the streets?

    Is it going to be just sudden and disastrous like that? I find it hard to believe because a currency doesn't just collapse unless people cannot or do not want to use it effectively.

    If they can do something to show that they are dealing with the deficit and halt the credit rating decline, then the dollar should just continue on its usual slide the way it always has.

    The deficit being the $1 trillion in the red per year, not the debt. The US will always operate on debt. The deficit means that the debt is going up faster than it is being paid which definitely is a problem right now.
    I do think that there's greater information systems and smarter government than there ever has been before, I dont believe that the same sorts of crisis which took place to cause the depression exist today but there are different ones which could amount to something very like it.

    There's seriously selfish and risky financial gamblers around who're getting Bond Villain like in their behaviour, there's the age old national politics in which governments and elites try and operate winner take all scenarios too, finally there are lots of "end of the world men" (and women) who are entertaining apocalyptic ideas, who'd rather see a crisis as none, they are left, right, centre of the spectrum.

  10. #10
    Mojibake sprinkles's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Posts
    2,968

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I do think that there's greater information systems and smarter government than there ever has been before, I dont believe that the same sorts of crisis which took place to cause the depression exist today but there are different ones which could amount to something very like it.

    There's seriously selfish and risky financial gamblers around who're getting Bond Villain like in their behaviour, there's the age old national politics in which governments and elites try and operate winner take all scenarios too, finally there are lots of "end of the world men" (and women) who are entertaining apocalyptic ideas, who'd rather see a crisis as none, they are left, right, centre of the spectrum.
    Yeah. Ironically I think GLD has a hand in this because I see their ads everywhere that this crisis scare appears. GLD being a traded fund that is backed by an actual gold vault so that people can 'trade gold' without actually having to deal with the stuff (hauling it around and dealing with the insurance etc)

    The thing about GLD is that only the authorized big dogs actually have access to the gold. Everyone else invests in shares but it's not the same as having a share where you can cash out real gold even though it's backed by real gold.

    Anyway, I think this scare is perpetrated by those who could stand to profit from people 'preparing' for crisis.

Similar Threads

  1. Twenty-First Century: Will the Catholic Church finally end?
    By Kephalos in forum Philosophy and Spirituality
    Replies: 37
    Last Post: 03-25-2012, 11:41 PM
  2. Replies: 96
    Last Post: 07-13-2011, 12:25 PM
  3. How much will the collapse of the dollar drag down others?
    By Tantive in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 18
    Last Post: 04-08-2010, 09:26 PM
  4. “The dollar will go to new lows as the U.S. attacks its currency”
    By Risen in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: 12-18-2008, 09:37 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO