User Tag List

First 345

Results 41 to 50 of 50

  1. #41
    Mojibake sprinkles's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Posts
    2,968

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    This is a tricky argument. Drive could both be part or not part of a blank state; there is no particular reason why drive is not a functional part (computational component) of a blank slate mind. Additionally drives could be created/modified by expectations/perceptions of the world (desire to return to a normal state) as much as anything else, especially inside a feedback loop that involves security.
    Also consider Conway's Game of Life.

    The Game of Life has only four rules:

    Any live cell with fewer than two live neighbors dies, as if caused by under-population.
    Any live cell with two or three live neighbors lives on to the next generation.
    Any live cell with more than three live neighbors dies, as if by overcrowding.
    Any dead cell with exactly three live neighbors becomes a live cell, as if by reproduction.

    This would be comparable to 'drive'. But the world is still blank until an initial condition is set. Once the initial condition is set it will go forth deterministically based on the rules, but the initial rules do nothing without the initial condition because if no cells are placed then no cells are ever alive.

    Another way of looking at it is with Rock Paper Scissors automata.


    Every cause has an effect and every effect is also a cause.

  2. #42

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    Probably not, although it comes pretty close to giving attention on demand (current literature anyway)... nothing special about maternal attention specifically, from what I can tell. The attention part is fairly strongly supported though, but it'll probably be another generation before we really know for sure.



    This is a tricky argument. Drive could both be part or not part of a blank state; there is no particular reason why drive is not a functional part (computational component) of a blank slate mind. Additionally drives could be created/modified by expectations/perceptions of the world (desire to return to a normal state) as much as anything else, especially inside a feedback loop that involves security.
    The blank slate idea to my mind is a denial of innateness, I think that there is innateness in the form of attachment seeking and other forms of maturation.

    I think the arguments against innateness are only made because the idea was abused and misused in the past to justify privilege and injustice.

  3. #43
    Mojibake sprinkles's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Posts
    2,968

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    The blank slate idea to my mind is a denial of innateness, I think that there is innateness in the form of attachment seeking and other forms of maturation.

    I think the arguments against innateness are only made because the idea was abused and misused in the past to justify privilege and injustice.
    It's not a denial of innateness. You're arguing against the wrong argument.

    This is getting off the point anyway. I brought it up as a way to illustrate why conditioning can work so well.
    NOT the other way around.

  4. #44

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sprinkles View Post
    It's not a denial of innateness. You're arguing against the wrong argument.

    This is getting off the point anyway. I brought it up as a way to illustrate why conditioning can work so well.
    NOT the other way around.


    Yeah, I said earlier that I thought we were proceeding from different points, although I think that blank slate may lend itself to people are suggestible/easily conditioned the innateness I was talking about lends itself to that too.

  5. #45
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    18,524
    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I think you're in a trance.
    I've been trained in trance by a Sports' Psychologist, John Turnbull, at the Australian National University.

    John trained us to enter and leave a trance at will, and to be aware of when we are entering a trance in everyday life.

    And we learnt that most trances are unconscious and socially induced or induced by technology.

    And the reason I harp on trance here is that most here enter and leave trances during the day unconsciously. So I try to draw attention to this and start to make the unconscious, conscious.

    Also I direct members to a good trance site at www.trance.edu

  6. #46
    Mojibake sprinkles's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Posts
    2,968

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post


    Yeah, I said earlier that I thought we were proceeding from different points, although I think that blank slate may lend itself to people are suggestible/easily conditioned the innateness I was talking about lends itself to that too.
    Yeah because innateness is well... innate. Generalized strategies can't work otherwise.

    Innateness is like the groundwork. The fundamentals of all things. Take gravity and air for example - if they didn't have inherent properties then air planes would randomly fall out of the sky for no reason whatsoever.

  7. #47

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    I've been trained in trance by a Sports' Psychologist, John Turnbull, at the Australian National University.

    John trained us to enter and leave a trance at will, and to be aware of when we are entering a trance in everyday life.

    And we learnt that most trances are unconscious and socially induced or induced by technology.

    And the reason I harp on trance here is that most here enter and leave trances during the day unconsciously. So I try to draw attention to this and start to make the unconscious, conscious.

    Also I direct members to a good trance site at www.trance.edu


    Really?!

    So I take it these people who're unconsciously in a trance, they're all coincidentially people who dont agree with you about things arent they?

    I base that on your post about encountering a group of nuns and being pretty rude to them, also how rude I've seen on you be on the forum too.

    I'm interested in how the unconscious operates and also things like social character which can involve things similar to what you're talking about but I wouldnt say that all differences of opinion are attributable to some being entranced and others enlightened. That's presumptious in extremis and arrogant.

  8. #48

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sprinkles View Post
    Yeah because innateness is well... innate. Generalized strategies can't work otherwise.

    Innateness is like the groundwork. The fundamentals of all things. Take gravity and air for example - if they didn't have inherent properties then air planes would randomly fall out of the sky for no reason whatsoever.
    Which is part of the reason why they are not good analogies to what's being discussed, we'll be divided by a common language on this topic I think to be honest.

  9. #49
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    18,524
    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post


    Really?!

    So I take it these people who're unconsciously in a trance, they're all coincidentially people who dont agree with you about things arent they?

    I base that on your post about encountering a group of nuns and being pretty rude to them, also how rude I've seen on you be on the forum too.

    I'm interested in how the unconscious operates and also things like social character which can involve things similar to what you're talking about but I wouldnt say that all differences of opinion are attributable to some being entranced and others enlightened. That's presumptious in extremis and arrogant.
    I think you have an unreasonable animus towards me.

  10. #50
    Mojibake sprinkles's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Posts
    2,968

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Which is part of the reason why they are not good analogies to what's being discussed, we'll be divided by a common language on this topic I think to be honest.
    No analogy is really good enough because we take them in through the very same mechanism that we're trying to figure out.

    It's the map/territory relation problem. No model is ever precise.

Similar Threads

  1. Languages and psychology
    By Virtual ghost in forum General Psychology
    Replies: 61
    Last Post: 02-12-2010, 09:48 PM
  2. [NT] NTs and Psychological Problems
    By penelope in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 33
    Last Post: 09-01-2009, 05:25 AM
  3. [ISFJ] ISFJ's and Psychology (career)
    By Hawker45 in forum The SJ Guardhouse (ESFJ, ISFJ, ESTJ, ISTJ)
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 04-17-2009, 02:03 PM
  4. Can we compare physics and psychology?
    By coberst in forum Philosophy and Spirituality
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 03-28-2009, 04:24 PM
  5. Cultural/ethnic identity and psychology
    By GZA in forum General Psychology
    Replies: 22
    Last Post: 05-13-2008, 10:42 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO