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  1. #31
    royal member Rasofy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    Please don't turn this into a "Because Daddy said so" argument.
    Seems you're starting to let your emotions cloud your judgement.

    I have no idea how to deal with that, so I'll just watch.

  2. #32
    Nerd King Usurper Edgar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    It's an issue of enforcing nepotism laws. They'd be great if you could enforce them.
    I know how we could enforce them. Pass a whole bunch of egalitarian laws and make the government the sole employer. Enforcement would be much easier and we would live in a communist utopia.
    Listen to me, baby, you got to understand, you're old enough to learn the makings of a man.

  3. #33

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    So the government should step in and regulate hiring and firing more than they already do? Perhaps you don't realize how much goes into the hiring/firing process. It's not exactly easy or simple, even in a right to work state. Yeah, it sucks she lost her job. Yeah, he's an idiot both for his issue with her as well as telling anyone why he fired her. But that's the way it is.

    You're also forgetting the other half of right to work...the employee can also walk away at any time for any reason without retribution.

    Now, if they can make a law against idiocy, i'm all for that.

  4. #34
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edgar View Post
    What changes to law do you propose? Make "attractive people" a protected class? If she was a homely woman she would still be working there.

    Yes, the woman got a raw deal in this situation. She didn't do anything egregious, aside maybe from not having the foresight not to get buddy-buddy with a boss who has an insecure/jealous wife. Doesn't mean the law needs to change because of it. How many good workers got laid off because boss's wife nagged him to hire her nephew instead? Do you want to outlaw nepotism in private business as well?
    This is about how I feel about it. It really shouldn't be the case--I can change my behavior to be more cheery if that's what's required at a day spa.. but my mother really can't change her appearance when she got ill and her weight changed as a result of the medicine she took, and day spas really want young looking attractive women working in their establishments.. You can't change those characteristics, so you just get the shit end of the stick because of pure personal reasons.

    But there isn't really much to be done on it. :/
    Kantgirl: Just say "I'm feminine and I'll punch anyone who says otherwise!"
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  5. #35
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EcK View Post
    So you're saying that an employer has to make up his or her mind forever about choose people to work with? Team dynamics are of paramount importance. That's why I brought up the notion of a garantee: return it with a refund, basically. as long as the person is competent and the reason for the dismissal are based on personal incompatibility
    She worked there ten years and got along fine, from what I can tell.

    It was simply because the dentist was religious (they talked to a pastor about the decision, who affirmed they should let her go); and, despite her not flirting with him, he was afraid he couldn't keep it in his pants. Again, though, the thing is that she worked there for ten years and is in her 30's now. he could keep it in his pants the entire time she worked there, just fine. Now she's out of a job in her trained profession and has to work endless nights as a waitress to make ends meet. It sounds almost like the dentist and wife got more religious at some point and so have been applying that in interesting ways to aspects of their lives. i think if she had been flirting with him and pursuing him, then that would have been different; but most religious people take it on themselves to avoid temptation, rather than punishing others for their issues.

    Anyone figure out yet who actually got screwed here?

    it's kind of disconcerting that people of either gender could be legally let go because their bosses had a lapse of character. one could be terminated at moment's notice without doing anything wrong or behaving offensively, while performing competently, under the guise of, "Well, my wife wanted me to fire her, and my religious beliefs told me I should." Pretty sweet.

    Quote Originally Posted by jontherobot View Post
    Reason #372 Texas is Better than Your State: You can dismiss anyone at any time without disclosing reason.
    Wait until the handgun laws start mixing with the firing laws. Soon enough, they'll just take you out back and cap you like Ol' Yeller.

    ^^ Comment made for entertainment purposes only.
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  6. #36
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasofy View Post
    Seems you're starting to let your emotions cloud your judgement.

    I have no idea how to deal with that, so I'll just watch.
    And the typical "Ohh, you feelers and your irrational emotions <3" snide remark as well? You just made this blanket "well, that's life toots" invalidating remark on the whole matter as if that was the end-all of the situation. It really closes off the discussion. If you didn't want to discuss your remarks, just say so.

    I'm saying this ruling opens up a whole host of potential issues that were, before, dealt with on a case-by-case basis. It's already nearly impossible to determine if you were fired for valid reasons in right to work states or not. But I'm worried this ruling will back up issues of sexism that were finally starting to be fixed in the professional environment. The employer was a snide dude that took his shot in a right to work state, but the ruling will overall make a step backwards in sexism being controlled in the work place.

    Attraction is currently being protected by the law. It doesn't matter if the girl was making moves, or that it takes two to tango so the boss couldn't get his way in there no matter what. He simply fired her before she could file a sexual harassment charge against him. And the courts upheld it.
    Kantgirl: Just say "I'm feminine and I'll punch anyone who says otherwise!"
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  7. #37
    The Memes Justify the End EcK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by metalmommy View Post
    Now, if they can make a law against idiocy, i'm all for that.
    Society would break down. Where would they even find juges
    Expression of the post modern paradox : "For the love of god, religions are so full of shit"

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  8. #38
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Is there any other country where the general masses are more sympathetic to management or more flagellistic as laborers than the USA?

    Quote Originally Posted by Edgar View Post
    I know how we could enforce them. Pass a whole bunch of egalitarian laws and make the government the sole employer. Enforcement would be much easier and we would live in a communist utopia.
    Or we could investigate a more reasonable way to achieve the same goal, like someone who's sincerely interested would.
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  9. #39
    Nerd King Usurper Edgar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    Is there any other country where the general masses are more sympathetic to management or more flagellistic as laborers than the USA?
    What do you base this lament on? I didn't see anyone here sympathizing with the boss more than the fired employee. Some folks just don't want the government legislating every time "well that sucks" incident occurs.

    Or we could investigate a more reasonable way to achieve the same goal, like someone who's sincerely interested would.
    Best of luck to you with that endeavor, young investigative legislator.
    Listen to me, baby, you got to understand, you're old enough to learn the makings of a man.

  10. #40
    The Memes Justify the End EcK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    The work place has already changed human nature. It isn't in my nature to wear certain clothes, act a certain way, not to cuss, not to lose my temper... none of these things are in my nature. Either was any of the things the army requires of me. I adjusted to the work environment. If I wanted a job, I had to change my nature. I'm a straight woman working in an all-male environment. Do you think I've never come across an attractive male I had to work around? But my attraction is not what's important--the work is. You suck it up and deal with it just like anything else in life. My nature is not to act like a chipper, kind lady at work--but if I want to keep my job as a receptionist at a day spa because it was all I could find at the time, that is how I will act. People going to a day spa don't really like straight forward, blunt, apathetic people greeting them on their day off at a place they paid for partially for customer service.

    If things were ran on human nature, I could see this being valid. But again and again the law and the professional environment and society itself stresses a change in people and their nature. I don't see why this is somehow an exception to policy. It doesn't matter if I am attracted to army guys, if I work for the army, I am going to put that attraction aside and do my job.
    Okey, but what do you get from a society that goes against human nature ? (I'm not saying your not getting anything, im asking for your opinion)
    Expression of the post modern paradox : "For the love of god, religions are so full of shit"

    Theory is always superseded by Fact...
    ... In theory.

    “I’d hate to die twice. It’s so boring.”
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    "Great is the human who has not lost his childlike heart."
    Mencius (Meng-Tse), 4th century BCE

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