User Tag List

First 45678 Last

Results 51 to 60 of 79

  1. #51
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    4,813

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    Free speech is basic to liberal democracy. However free speech does not mean speaking or acting to promote violence.
    Are you a lib dem or an anarchist?

    Do you not believe in having a military or police force?
    Take the weakest thing in you
    And then beat the bastards with it
    And always hold on when you get love
    So you can let go when you give it

  2. #52

    Default

    Having read some of that family history... Fred Phelps Sr. beat his son as a 5 month old baby? FFS! And his wife was pleased that she was able to deter him from doing that to the others until they were at least 10 and 12 months old? As a decent human being and a mother, I... am horrified and speechless. And knowing that those grandbabies live on that family compound and he has access to them...? If nothing else, let him get nailed for child abuse. I hope police and local child welfare services keep a damn close eye on those grandchildren as they clearly failed the (now) adult children. Sadly, I'm guessing they're just as sequestered as their parents were and the chances to observe them outside of picketing events are probably very rare.

    That whole family is the worst case of Stockholm Syndrome I've ever seen.
    "The purpose of life is to be defeated by greater and greater things." - Rainer Maria Rilke

  3. #53
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    18,545
    Quote Originally Posted by Beorn View Post
    Are you a lib dem or an anarchist?

    Do you not believe in having a military or police force?
    We found that power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely, so liberal democracy seeks to limit power.

    So far we have abolished institutional slavery for the first time in history in the House of Commons in 1833. And we have emancipated women for the first time in Australia and New Zealand in 1904. And as I write we are following the example of Ireland with a National Royal Commission into institutional child abuse.

    So liberal democracy has limited power over slaves and women and children.

    Liberal democracy limits power rather then abolishing power, so civilian control of the military and police limits their power.

  4. #54
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    4,813

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    Liberal democracy limits power rather then abolishing power, so civilian control of the military and police limits their power.
    Got it. You limit power of the people by taking all power to do or promote violence away from the people and ceding it to a centralized government.

    Of course given the fact that you don't think civilians should have the power or ability to promote violence themselves it's only reasonable to say that the control they have over the military and police is really at the mercy of the good will and pleasure of those forces.
    Take the weakest thing in you
    And then beat the bastards with it
    And always hold on when you get love
    So you can let go when you give it

  5. #55
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    MBTI
    ESTP
    Enneagram
    6w5
    Socionics
    SLE
    Posts
    6,364

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by iwakar View Post
    Having read some of that family history... Fred Phelps Sr. beat his son as a 5 month old baby? FFS! And his wife was pleased that she was able to deter him from doing that to the others until they were at least 10 and 12 months old? As a decent human being and a mother, I... am horrified and speechless. And knowing that those grandbabies live on that family compound and he has access to them...? If nothing else, let him get nailed for child abuse. I hope police and local child welfare services keep a damn close eye on those grandchildren as they clearly failed the (now) adult children. Sadly, I'm guessing they're just as sequestered as their parents were and the chances to observe them outside of picketing events are probably very rare.

    That whole family is the worst case of Stockholm Syndrome I've ever seen.
    Yeah, I'm kind of hoping that someone "accidentally" runs his ass over in the street.
    Artes, Scientia, Veritasiness

  6. #56
    Mojibake sprinkles's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Posts
    2,968

    Default

    Some times we must leave slack for certain people to hang themselves, so to speak.

    Like the KKK as mentioned earlier. It lets us see what they really are. And we see that they are just totally whack.

    It's kinda like "You're so nuts, we aren't even going to bother with you because everyone sees it. Even the other crazy people see it and want nothing to do with you."
    We don't even bother to validate their position. Kind of like flat earth people.

    If they actually break laws they go to jail but other than that they can sit over there and babble.

  7. #57
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    MBTI
    ESTP
    Enneagram
    6w5
    Socionics
    SLE
    Posts
    6,364

    Default

    Well, WBC do seem to have the ability to unite everyone against them. I don't think I've ever agreed with Hannity about anything else. Apparently even the KKK doesn't want anything to do with them.

    I mean, you know there's something seriously wrong when Fox News routinely shits all over someone who superficially shares many of their views, as if for the sheer sport of it. I don't think I've seen Hannity display so much self-righteous indignation at one time as when he interviewed Shirley Phelps about the death of those Amish girls. This lady even calls her the devil, LOL. This kind of shit makes me positively gleeful.

    Artes, Scientia, Veritasiness

  8. #58
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    MBTI
    ESTJ
    Enneagram
    9 so/sx
    Posts
    21,679

    Default

    I dont know, I'm not sure about using litigation to take down people like Westbro Baptists, I know that busting "anti-freedom" organisations by driving them broke was one of the "monkey wrenching" ideas of Claire Wolfe and other anti-government capitalists since the ninties. It just doesnt sit right with me in a lot of ways.

    There are people who do that to the RCC for instance and feel totally vindicated in doing so, although they arent going to really effect the shady, villainous, inquisitors or folk devils because apart from anything else those characters live in the heads of the minds of those who are on the attack.

    I know too that of the few genuine asshats who I've met who conform well to the villified religious reactionary, I've known protestant and catholic and other sorts getting reaction from others is pretty important to them (got into fist fights with the protestant and catholic varieties, to be honest the catholic one was more vociferous in his hatred of me than the protestant ones, at the time it surprised me but it doesnt now but the actual muslim and jewish "fanatics" I've met had some very, very extreme views but were of a different character and didnt escalate things at all, just calmly stated some pretty fanatical things).

    There was another site I visited which had pics from a counter demonstration which some US patriots held at a planned WB demo, they lines a route to a church with people with big flags and the WB didnt matter.

    There's always going to be a platform for hate, its always going to attract certain people (not even necessarily the most dumb either, the RCC fanatic that I met was some kind of fast tracked genius in his field kid who was years younger than he should have been to be at university).

  9. #59
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    MBTI
    ESTJ
    Enneagram
    9 so/sx
    Posts
    21,679

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Beorn View Post
    Got it. You limit power of the people by taking all power to do or promote violence away from the people and ceding it to a centralized government.

    Of course given the fact that you don't think civilians should have the power or ability to promote violence themselves it's only reasonable to say that the control they have over the military and police is really at the mercy of the good will and pleasure of those forces.
    Very good points.

    I know that maybe you're asserting that from a capitalist/libertarian or conservative/traditionalist position but from my own socialist perspective I totally agree with that analysis.

    That sort of division of labour in power and violence also leads to skilling and deskilling divisions too, which results in a total mismatch in capacity which is totally and utterly anti-democratic, you end up with a limitation of power in name only.

  10. #60
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    4,813

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Very good points.

    I know that maybe you're asserting that from a capitalist/libertarian or conservative/traditionalist position but from my own socialist perspective I totally agree with that analysis.

    That sort of division of labour in power and violence also leads to skilling and deskilling divisions too, which results in a total mismatch in capacity which is totally and utterly anti-democratic, you end up with a limitation of power in name only.
    Definately the latter of the bolded. I am no Randian Objectivist. However, as a conservative I will support whatever political alliances are necessary. Right now I often side with libertarians on national policy as any national social policies are infected with corporate interests and civil religion.

    I can't find my way to supporting socialism broadly as I have the same problem with ceding the means of production to the state as I have with ceding the power of violence. However, the smaller the state (and NI is a rather small state right now even if not completely sovereign) the fewer the problems as the leaders of the state are more likely to have a sense of social duty to their fellow countrymen. In America the DC bureaucrats have little affection for middle America even demeaning it by referring to it as "fly over country."

    Besides I don't think private ownership of the means of production is the main cause of all the evils that arose from capitalism over the last century and a half. I think the problems largely stem from usury, central banking issues, and corporatism (the ability to limit one's liability to one's investment.)
    Take the weakest thing in you
    And then beat the bastards with it
    And always hold on when you get love
    So you can let go when you give it

Similar Threads

  1. Need help buttoning down my type
    By MaybeINTJ in forum What's my Type?
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 07-02-2016, 12:53 PM
  2. Help type my friend group
    By lapinchocolat in forum What's my Type?
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 11-21-2015, 09:05 PM
  3. Westboro Baptist Church is protesting at my school.
    By Haphazard in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 122
    Last Post: 11-20-2009, 08:27 PM
  4. Westboro Baptist Church
    By swordpath in forum Philosophy and Spirituality
    Replies: 50
    Last Post: 02-06-2008, 06:24 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO