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  1. #41
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    I may disagree with what you say but I will defend to the death your right to say it.

    And free speech means nothing if we are not free to offend.

  2. #42
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    I may disagree with what you say but I will defend to the death your right to say it.

    And free speech means nothing if we are not free to offend.

    Would you defend to the death the right of pedophilia advocates to promote man-boy relationships at catholic schools?

    What about Muslim extremists picketing funerals of terrorist victims?

    I sure as hell wouldn't die for them.
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  3. #43
    Temporal Mechanic. Lexicon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post


    Seriously, though, I would never support taking away their Constitional rights....I wouldn't even take away their tax-exempt status unless it could be legally proven that they are not a non-profit organization.
    I suppose my thread's subject title is a tad misleading in terms of semantics.

    No one's suggesting revoking their free speech or right to assembly. The 1st petition doesn't suggest that.
    And yeah, the 2nd petition suggests investigating their tax-exempt status for that very reason. Find proof for or against.
    Considering most of the shit they pull [& the amount of money they make off of it], I'd say it's worth a closer look.
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  4. #44
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    I think they'd get more attention if they picket on an internet forum. Those idiots.

  5. #45
    Sweet Ocean Cloud SD45T-2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beorn View Post
    This is a horrible idea. Especially if our determination of what constitutes a hate group is based on what the southern poverty law center thinks. Pfft.

    Handing more power to the federal government to regulate what used to be free assembly is just rife with problems.

    However, I'm not a libertarian and don't think people have an absolute right to be offensive. Localism is the answer. Any town or city should have the right and ability to ban any group they want from protesting in their community and causing problems.
    I like the cut of your jib, to use a Dennis Millerism.

    Awhile back I heard Mark Steyn talking about WBC picketing at the funeral of a soldier who was killed in Iraq and how some people were calling for legislative action. He said "A society that has lost it's moral compass will never have enough laws."
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  6. #46
    Senior Member LEGERdeMAIN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    Do you know where this list lives? I don't know of one.



    Crimes are prosecuted, and they fit the definition of hate crime, but that's a separate issue... what I'm looking for is special treatment for a hate group specifically.
    You'll have to file a FOIA request. They don't publish a list. However, there is a list of White Hate Groups on their site, courtesy of a granted FOIA request. I suspect a list does exist, even if it's just a copy of SPL's list, which it very well may be considering they use SPL as a resource in their Hate Crimes page.

    Sure, some people commit crimes because they are racist. Why should a racist should be punished more than someone who commits murder because he thinks your fucking his wife?
    “Some people will tell you that slow is good – but I’m here to tell you that fast is better. I’ve always believed this, in spite of the trouble it’s caused me. Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba…”


  7. #47
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beorn View Post
    Would you defend to the death the right of pedophilia advocates to promote man-boy relationships at catholic schools?

    What about Muslim extremists picketing funerals of terrorist victims?

    I sure as hell wouldn't die for them.
    Free speech is basic to liberal democracy. However free speech does not mean speaking or acting to promote violence.

    So I would hold my nose and defend free speech for paedophiles, but not to children in Catholic schools. And I would put a peg on my nose and defend free speech for Muslim extremists, but not at a funeral for terrorist victims.

    On Typology Central for instance we have free speech, we are free to offend in matters of religion, nationality, politics and opinion, but we are not free to make personal insults.

    Authoritarians and totalitarians find free speech itself offensive. And it is liberal democracy that thrives on free speech.

  8. #48
    royal member Rasofy's Avatar
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    Members of the Westboro Baptist Church say that America is being punished for its acceptance of gays and lesbians. In recent days, Phelps family members have sent tweets about the Connecticut shooting that have said "God sent the shooter."
    ffs, why can't they blame Satan like every one else?

    Religions used to be simpler.

  9. #49
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LEGERdeMAIN View Post
    You'll have to file a FOIA request. They don't publish a list. However, there is a list of White Hate Groups on their site, courtesy of a granted FOIA request. I suspect a list does exist, even if it's just a copy of SPL's list, which it very well may be considering they use SPL as a resource in their Hate Crimes page.
    I assume then that there are some lists for enforcement (already known), but none for the legal system. There is no classification for a hate group that enables legal exceptions; this petition ultimately would do nothing.

    Sure, some people commit crimes because they are racist. Why should a racist should be punished more than someone who commits murder because he thinks your fucking his wife?
    That's not how the hate crime definition works; the crime must be motivated by the categorization of another.

    I believe there are two main reasons for it. First is for social support: treating the motivation negatively indicates that society does not condone the motivation which can be important in dealing with any form of discrimination, and the second is the general practice of using motivation as threat/punishment meter similar to pre-meditated and varying degree of emotional states.

  10. #50
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    What a silly bunch of people they are. One day they're going to provoke the wrath and violence of some crowd of people, and they'll finally be stopped from doing stupid shit not because of their odiousness but for their own protection.

    Oh my, I just read chapter two of that Fred Phelp's story. How sickening.
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