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  1. #31
    Temporal Mechanic. Lexicon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beargryllz View Post
    I want this group to exist, they serve this country in a way that no other group can

    To take them down might invite another group to take their place, but this isn't important

    What is important is that they serve to identify Americans who believe in America and Americans who hate America

    Every month or so, this group ignites discussion that quickly reveals which of us hate the constitution and which of us support free association, provocative speech, and toleration of beliefs we do not hold ourselves
    Funny, most reasonable people I've interacted with have discussed how the WBC abuses others and abuses the system.

    Few people, as this thread illustrates quite well, "hate" the constitution.

    I'm for tolerance and provocative discussion, but I'm not for these people getting to live tax-free based on their personal cult of hatred. Nothing they do directly benefits the community. They make it clear that they don't even try to help their fellow man.

    There are plenty of other ways people can and do discuss the same things you're emphasizing that don't involve emotional terrorism on vulnerable people.
    03/23 06:06:58 EcK: lex
    03/23 06:06:59 EcK: lex
    03/23 06:21:34 Nancynobullets: LEXXX *sacrifices a first born*
    03/23 06:21:53 Nancynobullets: We summon yooouuu
    03/23 06:29:07 Lexicon: I was sleeping!



    04/25 04:20:35 Patches: Don't listen to lex. She wants to birth a litter of kittens. She doesnt get to decide whats creepy

    02/16 23:49:38 ygolo: Lex is afk
    02/16 23:49:45 Cimarron: she's doing drugs with Jack

    03/05 19:27:41 Time: You can't make chat morbid. Lex does it naturally.

  2. #32
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lexicon View Post
    Yeah, I'm not saying necessarily we need to take away their right to assembly, but at least examine their tax exempt status. I think @Edgar did a good job explaining why they sort of don't fit in that category- though I do agree with @LEGERdeMAIN that I see no reason for certain organizations to be tax exempt in the first place. While they are, though, I figure we might as well evaluate whether or not this group even truly falls within that category of the current system.
    I think we do need to re-examine tax exempt status on a broad scale. I don't necessarily support targeting a particular group. I suspect that WBC knows exactly where the line that they cannot cross is located and that their toes are right up against that line, but not crossing it. If we move the line, they will move accordingly. If we move the line too far in the direction of stopping folks like them, it'll be far enough to curtail the rights of decent people. That is, IMO, to be avoided at almost any cost.

    Edit: They are heinous, but they are not stupid.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  3. #33
    Nerd King Usurper Edgar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beargryllz View Post
    What do you hope to find? What would you do if you found it?
    Really? You need to ask?
    Listen to me, baby, you got to understand, you're old enough to learn the makings of a man.

  4. #34
    Senior Member Beargryllz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lexicon View Post
    Funny, most reasonable people I've interacted with have discussed how the WBC abuses others and abuses the system.

    Few people, as this thread illustrates quite well, "hate" the constitution.

    I'm for tolerance and provocative discussion, but I'm not for these people getting to live tax-free based on their personal cult of hatred. Nothing they do directly benefits the community. They make it clear that they don't even try to help their fellow man.

    There are plenty of other ways people can and do discuss the same things you're emphasizing that don't involve emotional terrorism on vulnerable people.
    I agree that they shouldn't be tax-free, but neither should any other organization

    No non-profit organization deserves to be tax-free, and no cult (no matter the size) should be exempt from taxation, which is essential to a functioning society

    Besides, one man's hate is another one's love. You believe that this is a hate group, but it is clear to me that the message is one of love and concern for all the world. Phelps has become a lightingrod to have his words heard by those he believes need to hear them.

    I don't believe you have a leg to stand on when you say that they do nothing to benefit the community. I could argue the same nonsense about any church in any community and I would always be as wrong as you are, so I won't.

  5. #35
    Senior Member Beargryllz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edgar View Post
    Really? You need to ask?
    You may answer if you wish

  6. #36
    Nerd King Usurper Edgar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beargryllz View Post
    You may answer if you wish
    The only reasonable explanation for someone making a request that the tax exempt status of an organization should be investigated is:

    1. They suspect that the organization does not meet the tax exempt status requirements in its current state.
    2. If that is the case, their tax exempt status should be revoked.
    Listen to me, baby, you got to understand, you're old enough to learn the makings of a man.

  7. #37
    Temporal Mechanic. Lexicon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beargryllz View Post

    Besides, one man's hate is another one's love. You believe that this is a hate group, but it is clear to me that the message is one of love and concern for all the world. Phelps has become a lightingrod to have his words heard by those he believes need to hear them.
    Do you actually know anything about that organization?

    Members have actually stated they're not trying to help or save anyone. They believe we're all doomed to hell, that it's inescapable. There is no love or concern for any of us. Their picketing isn't an act of charity, or a means to convince - again: members have stated this in interviews.
    They're merely vomiting up their own mentally disturbed father's rage, ultimately. They don't have a cause beyond their own sick behavior.

    I don't believe you have a leg to stand on when you say that they do nothing to benefit the community. I could argue the same nonsense about any church in any community and I would always be as wrong as you are, so I won't.
    Name another church in which nonmembers even make complaints like this about, in the first place. I imagine the communities collectively decide on what groups seem beneficial, in some way or another. It's been rather consistent that no community in this country [and beyond] finds WBC beneficial to society.

    I get what point you're trying to make, and objectively, yeah, we could argue forever about what truly is beneficial [and if organized religion is really beneficial at all, which, I'm athiest, so you can probably imagine where I stand on that], but there'd be no real use in doing so, here.
    03/23 06:06:58 EcK: lex
    03/23 06:06:59 EcK: lex
    03/23 06:21:34 Nancynobullets: LEXXX *sacrifices a first born*
    03/23 06:21:53 Nancynobullets: We summon yooouuu
    03/23 06:29:07 Lexicon: I was sleeping!



    04/25 04:20:35 Patches: Don't listen to lex. She wants to birth a litter of kittens. She doesnt get to decide whats creepy

    02/16 23:49:38 ygolo: Lex is afk
    02/16 23:49:45 Cimarron: she's doing drugs with Jack

    03/05 19:27:41 Time: You can't make chat morbid. Lex does it naturally.

  8. #38
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lexicon View Post
    Do you actually know anything about that organization?

    Members have actually stated they're not trying to help or save anyone. They believe we're all doomed to hell, that it's inescapable. There is no love or concern for any of us. Their picketing isn't an act of charity, or a means to convince - again: members have stated this in interviews.
    They're merely vomiting up their own mentally disturbed father's rage, ultimately. They don't have a cause beyond their own sick behavior.
    Yeah, pretty much the entire rest of the USA Christian church (any denom) is quick to not be lumped in with Westboro. The revulsion is pretty much universal. We're not talking about Methodists or Catholics or even Baptists (of which Westboro considers themselves a part of) in general here. They're view with the same horror the world would view cannibalist backwoods subterranean nocturnal rednecks carnivores.

    (just to get the point across)

    EDIT: Here's a YouTube clip from some Australian show poking fun at WBC. it's the weirdest thing to actually hear a Fox news reporter inadvertently taking the same side as gay people because of how frustrated she is trying to debate with a WBC representative. The audio for this is NSFW, btw, primarily due to the Westboro folks... especially a clip from Phelps' sermon shortly after 9/11.



    I guess it's also an example of what can happen when you troll the trolls...
    Last edited by Bellflower; 12-22-2012 at 02:45 AM.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

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  9. #39
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LEGERdeMAIN View Post
    Ironically, the Civil Rights Act of 1968 did allow federal prosecution of "hate" crimes, which led to the executive branch's compiling a list of hate groups.
    Do you know where this list lives? I don't know of one.

    So, yes, we do categorize them in some way and hate crimes are prosecuted.
    Crimes are prosecuted, and they fit the definition of hate crime, but that's a separate issue... what I'm looking for is special treatment for a hate group specifically.

  10. #40
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    (Incidentally, even the KKK is counter-protesting the WBC's presence in Newtown.)


    Seriously, though, I would never support taking away their Constitional rights....I wouldn't even take away their tax-exempt status unless it could be legally proven that they are not a non-profit organization.

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