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  1. #181

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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    Okay...so you are saying that the Bush administration created a closed-minded environment across the U.S., which closed people's minds off to technological innovation, resulting in stagnation in the economy?
    Quote Originally Posted by Zergling View Post
    Have you seen this directly (out of curiosity)? most bits and pieces of this post do seem to be true, and I see Bush+other leaders over the past few years as causing future problems by not pushing innovation, but some of the connections above seem a bit iffy.
    Eight years is plenty of time for stagnation to set-in. Tax policy is slow, but psychology is nearly immediate.

    Things happen on different time scales. I think he had nothing to do with the dot.com bust, but had everything to do with the jobless "recovery," and his "stimulus packages" (though they do work, short term) were nothing but band-aids.

    What he did to science in the U.S. is reprehensible, and if this isn't a result, we will be feeling many of its effects for many years to come. He legitimized backward thinking (read the Republican War on Science)

    Even stalwarts of the Republican Party approached him about maintaining U.S. competitiveness in Science education, but he brushed them off like they were a nuisance (I saw one instance, personally, and heard of many others). He simply doesn't seem to care (and may even be harboring some form resentment).


    In addition, his administration continually stoked peoples fears (that should be obvious), which is never condusive for progress. Terror alerts are not conducive for business trips, and less face-to-face time is bad for morale and efficiency.

    War can create many jobs (which is good for the economy) but it also creates uncertainty and fear, and drains peoples morale (which is bad for the economy).

    The "you're either with us or against us" attitudes created real divisions between people who worked together well before (I know many personal instances, and this is ont the type of thing people keep statistics on)

    Funding for research programs was funelled based on ideology, rather than effectiveness (part of the "we took office, and now lets screw the oter side as much as possible, mentality"). Again, people don't keep statistics on this type of thing. But anecdotes among scientists abound.

    He also essentially played the role of the prototypically spoiled rich-kid as a leader (read Imperial Life in the Emerald City) and legitimized that style of thinking (many modern CEOs are like that, and it was hard to knock them off of their magical thinking, and the belief that problems will go away when you ignore them).


    I have experienced the stagnation in innovation personally, yes.

    Note: a lot of the critisism leveled at "Republicans" falls squarely on the Bush Administration itself.

    I am rather conservative leaning, fiscally, but the Bush adminstration sucks not because of their fiscal policy per say, but their mismanagement of morale.

    The effects of psychology on the economy are immediate. Psychology can cause runs on banks that "ought" to be solvent, sell-offs of company shares that "ought" to be worth more, and various other things... and these affects happen fast and in the short term. The constant morale lowering effect that the Bush administration has had is, IMO, horrible.

    Accept the past. Live for the present. Look forward to the future.
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    "[A] scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy." Richard Feynman
    "[P]etabytes of [] data is not the same thing as understanding emergent mechanisms and structures." Jim Crutchfield

  2. #182
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    Well, that depends. Are the parties and their candidates legitimate, or is it all just theatrics to distract the people's attention away from the real government of entrenched bureacracy?
    Sorry, but I think threre is no way you can have normal elections if you have 126 political partys.


    It looks like I have one hard ot believe story to tell.

  3. #183
    Oberon
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    Sorry, but I think threre is no way you can have normal elections if you have 126 political partys.
    Coalition governments are, as I understand it, the rule in most of the world that uses representative forms of government.

    So let's explore "normal." What do you mean by "normal," exactly?

  4. #184
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    By normal I mean elections that go smoothly and by that I mean that you don't get lost in number of choices.

    For example if you have parlament with 150 seats, 126 partys is too much.
    But party for entering parlament needs minimum number of votes from some region.
    Since only small number of them succeed in this. You have situation that 30-40% of votes are thrown in nothing.

    Tomorrow I will post entire story because I am interested in opinion of people around the world. So far I have presented only tip of the iceberg.
    I don't want to be a contaminator of this thread any more.

  5. #185
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    By normal I mean elections that go smoothly and by that I mean that you don't get lost in number of choices.

    For example if you have parlament with 150 seats, 126 partys is too much.
    But party for entering parlament needs minimum number of votes from some region.
    Since only small number of them succeed in this. You have situation that 30-40% of votes are thrown in nothing.

    Tomorrow I will post entire story because I am interested in opinion of people around the world. So far I have presented only tip of the iceberg.
    I don't want to be a contaminator of this thread any more.
    I believe that upwards of 50 political parties have made the ballot in at least one state in the U.S. in the last 40 years.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  6. #186
    Senior Member LostInNerSpace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiddo View Post
    Sorry, I've never seen that defintion of racism before. Did you get that from a dictionary or is that your personal defintion?

    If you had not read my earlier post, the semantics of this little game is called "arbitrary redefinition" a nice little equivocation technique which allows a person to make their own little personal defintion of a word in order to justify their reasoning. Since it is suppose to be the other way around, and reasoning is suppose to be based on objective definitions, it is fallacious to do so.
    There are no completely objective decisions made by people. There is research to show that all decisions involve at least some emotion before we apply "logic" to that emotional decision. We subconsciously rank the decisions by emotional attachment, and then rationalize our choice to justify those decisions in the conscious mind. It is estimated that 5% of total cognition is conscious.

    I do know what you are saying. People can and do intentionally put a spin on words to alter the meaning through emotional impact--my question would be, why not? All you would be doing would be applying a little conscious reasoning to what would otherwise be an unconscious process in someone's head. The whole purpose of communication is to get your point across and for it to be correctly understood from your perspective, isn't it?

  7. #187
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LostInNerSpace View Post
    There are no completely objective decisions made by people. There is research to show that all decisions involve at least some emotion before we apply "logic" to that emotional decision. We subconsciously rank the decisions by emotional attachment, and then rationalize our choice to justify those decisions in the conscious mind. It is estimated that 5% of total cognition is conscious.

    I do know what you are saying. People can and do intentionally put a spin on words to alter the meaning through emotional impact--my question would be, why not? All you would be doing would be applying a little conscious reasoning to what would otherwise be an unconscious process in someone's head. The whole purpose of communication is to get your point across and for it to be correctly understood from your perspective, isn't it?
    Kiddo, apparently, doesn't come to the boards anymore. And I wasn't putting a spin on what racism means. I hate spin, and I am a big fan of plain speech.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  8. #188
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    I'm not voting Republican because Republican values are ridiculous.

  9. #189
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    I'm voting Democrat is awesome.

  10. #190
    Oberon
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    I prefer not to vote for either wing of our one-party system.

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