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  1. #161
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    News flash for all of y'all... the president doesn't control the economy. He may influence it, but he can't control it.
    Thanks for stating the obvious. Between the president and the legistlators, they influence it enough to make a major difference.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wolf View Post
    That would be Greenspan's and Clinton's legacy.

    Shrub didn't amplify it.

    If we would have had Gore or Kerry (both with insane tax plans), we would be in Great Depression 2 by now (not that we're not headed that way).
    Clinton oversaw some of the greatest economic growth in American history.

    Under Bush, we got hit in the world trade center at the same time that he startedly ridiculously raising spending while cutting taxes. You don't raise spending and cut taxes at the same time! Nobody could have squandered that surplus faster.
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  2. #162
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    Well, you seemed to need it.

    It's every president's fondest wish to preside during an economic upswing.
    Yes, but the president is not totally without control. That's influence is all about.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  3. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    Yes, but the president is not totally without control. That's influence is all about.
    He's not totally without influence. Believe me, plenty of presidents have wanted to make the economy better, and couldn't figure out how. Their influence wasn't sufficient to the task in the face of other, more powerful market forces.

    By this I mean, by attributing good or bad economies to the presidents who presided during those times, you're committing a logical error. Correlation isn't causation, a point you already know.

  4. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    Clinton oversaw some of the greatest economic growth in American history.
    Pure dumb (and I mean dumb in every possible way) luck.

    Under Bush, we got hit in the world trade center at the same time that he startedly ridiculously raising spending while cutting taxes. You don't raise spending and cut taxes at the same time! Nobody could have squandered that surplus faster.
    That does not negatively affect the economy, it positively affects it, but it's extremely slow.
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    Disclaimer: The above is my opinion and mine alone, it does not mean I cannot change my mind, nor does it guarantee that my comments are related to any deep-seated convictions. Take everything I say with a whole snowplow worth of salt and call me in the morning, if you can.

  5. #165
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    He's not totally without influence. Believe me, plenty have presidents have wanted to make the economy better, and couldn't figure out how. Their influence wasn't sufficient to the task in the face of other, more powerful market forces.

    By this I mean, by attributing good or bad economies to the presidents who presided during those times, you're committing a logical error. Correlation isn't causation, a point you already know.
    I'm not an economist, but I do remember learning in economics 101 that the effects of a given president's economic policies are not usually felt until (at least) three or four years after their implementation. Am I wrong (for real, because I might be)?
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  6. #166
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolf View Post
    Pure dumb (and I mean dumb in every possible way) luck.
    That's amazing...

    Quote Originally Posted by Wolf View Post
    That does not negatively affect the economy, it positively affects it, but it's extremely slow.
    Actually, the longer we have a budget deficit, the longer we're going to have a trade deficit, because we won't be able to pay anything off. The moment the rest of the world stops investing and doing business with us, we're screwed. The dollar will become toilet paper, among other repercussions. It's already starting to happen actually.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  7. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    I'm not an economist, but I do remember learning in economics 101 that the effects of a given president's economic policies are not usually felt until three or four years after their implementation. Am I wrong (for real, because I might be)?
    You are correct, and that's a minimum. Roughly 1-2 terms, but it can vary based on how much they modify the tax structures implemented by their predecessors.
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    Disclaimer: The above is my opinion and mine alone, it does not mean I cannot change my mind, nor does it guarantee that my comments are related to any deep-seated convictions. Take everything I say with a whole snowplow worth of salt and call me in the morning, if you can.

  8. #168
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolf View Post
    You are correct, and that's a minimum. Roughly 1-2 terms, but it can vary based on how much they modify the tax structures implemented by their predecessors.
    So I presume that little economic bump during the first Bush's presidency was because of Reagan, then?
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  9. #169

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolf View Post
    Actually, based on what I've seen and heard, both major party candidates are worse than Shrub. There's a lot of stupid going around involving politics, a lot of hate, a lot of blindness. In distant retrospect, nobody will remember Shrub for anything but the Iraq War (if at all - they don't seem to remember who started and who ended Vietnam), the DHS, and probably 9/11. The rest will be forgotten.

    Both stand for the same things Shrub is doing, but Obama will destroy the economy on top of doing everything Shrub is doing, or worse. Be afraid of "change" when the "changer" doesn't stand for anything - they're corporate puppets.
    What I am about to say will be inflamatory on many levels, but I don't know how to sugar-coat it. Admittedly, it is simply my opinion, and I have little factual basis for it (though I think I have support for many individual points). It simply make sense to me.

    1) Technology and new business models (in short, new ways of doing things) is what creates growth.
    2) Open environmetns, with open minds are more conducive to new ways of doing things.
    3) George Bush's administration created a very closed, and closed-minded environment in the U.S.

    Our economy is barely growing, because we are all essentially doing things in the same ways (technologically, and economically speaking) now as we were in 2000 when Bush took office, despite that fact that we were hitting limits, getting diminishing returns, and otherwise in sore need of innovation.

    Innovation in itself causes problems, but those are the problems and corrections of a growing economy. What we have here is near stagnation.

    Accept the past. Live for the present. Look forward to the future.
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  10. #170
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ygolo View Post
    What I am about to say will be inflamatory on many levels, but I don't know how to sugar-coat it. Admittedly, it is simply my opinion, and I have little factual basis for it (though I think I have support for many individual points). It simply make sense to me.

    1) Technology and new business models (in short, new ways of doing things) is what creates growth.
    2) Open environmetns, with open minds are more conducive to new ways of doing things.
    3) George Bush's administration created a very closed, and closed-minded environment in the U.S.

    Our economy is barely growing, because we are all essentially doing things in the same ways (technologically, and economically speaking) now as we were in 2000 when Bush took office, despite that fact that we were hitting limits, getting diminishing returns, and otherwise in sore need of innovation.

    Innovation in itself causes problems, but those are the problems and corrections of a growing economy. What we have here is near stagnation.
    Okay...so you are saying that the Bush administration created a closed-minded environment across the U.S., which closed people's minds off to technological innovation, resulting in stagnation in the economy?
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