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  1. #151
    Oberon
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jen View Post
    But what it it's for the better?
    Then and only then is change good.

    But you've probably got even odds that it'll be for the worse.

  2. #152
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    Then and only then is change good.

    But you've probably got even odds that it'll be for the worse.
    Quantification is in order. How much better or worse?

    I'm personally of the belief that rolling the die for change ultimately yields higher odds of good results than sticking with what we have. Besides, I'm not completely rolling a die. Seeking change doesn't strictly mean entrusting luck.
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  3. #153
    Oberon
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    Quantification is in order. How much better or worse?

    I'm personally of the belief that rolling the die for change ultimately yields higher odds of good results than sticking with what we have. Besides, I'm not completely rolling a die. Seeking change doesn't strictly mean entrusting luck.
    Well, true... but I was specifically addressing Jen's naked assertion that "change is good."

    Now, about this:

    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    I'm personally of the belief that rolling the die for change ultimately yields higher odds of good results than sticking with what we have.
    On the basis of what evidence do you believe this?

  4. #154
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    On the basis of what evidence do you believe this?
    Becuase with the way people like G.W. are running things, I pretty much think this country would be doomed to die if leadership carried on that way. Now, when you're faced with inevitable death, any alternative is better. Given the choice between an 100% chance of death, and 99% chance of death, take 99%.

    I would say that Bush is plausibly the worst president in American history, so history seems to impy that the odds of whover I pick being better than him are pretty high.

    That was a simplified answer mind you, but I don't feel like being to lengthy right now.
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  5. #155
    Oberon
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    Again, I had assumed we were discussing your optimism in general, as a stand-alone principle... not your optimism in the context of the upcoming election.

    My mistake.

    EDIT: I do not by any means share your assumption that any other president would be better than Bush II, and I'm no fan of the W. Think big. We haven't yet had a Robert Mugabe.

  6. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    Then and only then is change good.

    But you've probably got even odds that it'll be for the worse.
    Actually, based on what I've seen and heard, both major party candidates are worse than Shrub. There's a lot of stupid going around involving politics, a lot of hate, a lot of blindness. In distant retrospect, nobody will remember Shrub for anything but the Iraq War (if at all - they don't seem to remember who started and who ended Vietnam), the DHS, and probably 9/11. The rest will be forgotten.

    Both stand for the same things Shrub is doing, but Obama will destroy the economy on top of doing everything Shrub is doing, or worse. Be afraid of "change" when the "changer" doesn't stand for anything - they're corporate puppets.
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    Disclaimer: The above is my opinion and mine alone, it does not mean I cannot change my mind, nor does it guarantee that my comments are related to any deep-seated convictions. Take everything I say with a whole snowplow worth of salt and call me in the morning, if you can.

  7. #157
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Anybody who knows politics knows how Vietnam started and ended. They will remember the history of this war as well.

    You also said that Obama will destroy the economy, as if Bush hasn't already been doing that.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  8. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    That said, there are liberal Democrats.
    There are also liberal republicans, as curious as that may seem.

    The two primary political parties in our country are utterly bizarre and difficult to pin down because they are primarily special-interest panderers that stand for little else. Both are in the pockets of big businesses, so there's no real distinction there. Republicans are slightly more closely aligned with certain MIC businesses, while democrats are slightly more closely aligned with major unions. The more extreme groups that are theoretically associated with democrats are radical socialists and environmental terrorists, while republicans theoretically are associated with major religious groups and mining/heavy industry.

    It's like trying to pin up jello, though.
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    Disclaimer: The above is my opinion and mine alone, it does not mean I cannot change my mind, nor does it guarantee that my comments are related to any deep-seated convictions. Take everything I say with a whole snowplow worth of salt and call me in the morning, if you can.

  9. #159
    Oberon
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    You also said that Obama will destroy the economy, as if Bush hasn't already been doing that.
    News flash for all of y'all... the president doesn't control the economy. He may influence it, but he can't control it.

  10. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    Anybody who knows politics knows how Vietnam started and ended. They will remember the history of this war as well.

    You also said that Obama will destroy the economy, as if Bush hasn't already been doing that.
    That would be Greenspan's and Clinton's legacy.

    Shrub didn't amplify it.

    If we would have had Gore or Kerry (both with insane tax plans), we would be in Great Depression 2 by now (not that we're not headed that way). Presidential effects are heavily delayed since they only have influence over taxes (but congress is ultimately to blame if it goes through), which take years to have an effect on the economy (it's slow and builds up over time).
    I 100%, N 88%, T 88%, J 75%

    Disclaimer: The above is my opinion and mine alone, it does not mean I cannot change my mind, nor does it guarantee that my comments are related to any deep-seated convictions. Take everything I say with a whole snowplow worth of salt and call me in the morning, if you can.

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