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  1. #591
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    'What we need here to resolve everything is moar guns.'

    That would be amusing if so many people didn't reason that way.

  2. #592
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    Quote Originally Posted by Within View Post
    'What we need here to resolve everything is moar guns.'

    That would be amusing if so many people didn't reason that way.
    Out of the vast number of pro gun ownership folks, how many reason that way?

    Out of the sum of the discussions you've had with pro gun ownership folks, what percentage of them have reasoned that way?

    You paint with much too broad a brush.

  3. #593
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    Out of the vast number of pro gun ownership folks, how many reason that way?
    I'm not sure if it was the same day or the day after the shooting, but there was a public outcry demanding that teachers should be allowed to carry guns with them as they tended to their real profession. Hence my comment.

    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    Out of the sum of the discussions you've had with pro gun ownership folks, what percentage of them have reasoned that way?
    Two reasoned as said above. So, that would make it 2%.

    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    You paint with much to broad a brush.
    I tend to do that, yes.

    You strike me as a person who fancy statistics disco;

    http://www.theatlantic.com/internati...deaths/260189/

  4. #594
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    Quote Originally Posted by Within View Post
    I'm not sure if it was the same day or the day after the shooting, but there was a public outcry demanding that teachers should be allowed to carry guns with them as they tended to their real profession. Hence my comment.
    What public outcry? Mr. LaPierre at the NRA?

    I don't think the actions of one industry group, and small numbers of gun enthusiasts can be considered a public outcry. They can, however, be misconstrued as such when agents with an incentive to do so focus on those opinions to the extent that they SEEM to be the stance of the pro-gun community generally.

    What I would consider a public outcry is the rending of garments and gnashing of teeth we've seen in the media regarding gun control.

    Two reasoned as said above.
    I might recommend a grain of salt in the future, when you're consuming news.

    You strike me as a person who fancy statistics disco;

    http://www.theatlantic.com/internati...deaths/260189/
    From that very same article:

    Even the most basic framework of Japan's approach to gun ownership is almost the polar opposite of America's. U.S. gun law begins with the second amendment's affirmation of the "right of the people to keep and bear arms" and narrows it down from there. Japanese law, however, starts with the 1958 act stating that "No person shall possess a firearm or firearms or a sword or swords," later adding a few exceptions. In other words, American law is designed to enshrine access to guns, while Japan starts with the premise of forbidding it. The history of that is complicated, but it's worth noting that U.S. gun law has its roots in resistance to British gun restrictions, whereas some academic literature links the Japanese law to the national campaign to forcibly disarm the samurai, which may partially explain why the 1958 mentions firearms and swords side-by-side.

    Of course, Japan and the U.S. are separated by a number of cultural and historical difference much wider than their gun policies. Kopel explains that, for whatever reason, Japanese tend to be more tolerant of the broad search and seizure police powers necessary to enforce the ban. "Japanese, both criminals and ordinary citizens, are much more willing than their American counterparts to consent to searches and to answer questions from the police," he writes. But even the police did not carry firearms themselves until, in 1946, the American occupation authority ordered them to. Now, Japanese police receive more hours of training than their American counterparts, are forbidden from carrying off-duty, and invest hours in studying martial arts in part because they "are expected to use [firearms] in only the rarest of circumstances," according to Kopel.

    The Japanese and American ways of thinking about crime, privacy, and police powers are so different -- and Japan is such a generally peaceful country -- that it's functionally impossible to fully isolate and compare the two gun control regiments. It's not much easier to balance the costs and benefits of Japan's unusual approach, which helps keep its murder rate at the second-lowest in the world, though at the cost of restrictions that Kopel calls a "police state," a worrying suggestion that it hands the government too much power over its citizens. After all, the U.S. constitution's second amendment is intended in part to maintain "the security of a free State" by ensuring that the government doesn't have a monopoly on force.

  5. #595
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    What public outcry? Mr. LaPierre at the NRA?
    No actually, I endeavor to limit the bias I take in when I try to understand something external to myself. Let alone use the information in a situation such as this.

    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    What I would consider a public outcry is the rending of garments and gnashing of teeth we've seen in the media regarding gun control.
    Yes, there's definitely two sides to a coin. I'm only commenting on the one that struck me as the most peculiar. Which was the post-ironic ground thumping idea on how to solve the issue at hand by applying said gasoline to the fire.

    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    I might recommend a grain of salt in the future, when you're consuming news.
    From that very same article:
    I'll flip that right back onto yourself. When I think and in turn write I always keep a form of unknowable-utopia in mind for myself. That said culture, history and what ever excuse one could ever imagine would hold an absolute value of nothing. Therefor in this hypothetical world of my own, I can play with the idea of utopia itself and calculate how it would impact the world, if set forth into it with an unquestionable stature.

    What do you think would happen if the same level of gun control as they enforce in Japan was applied globally with a maintainable system, disco?

  6. #596
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    Quote Originally Posted by Within View Post
    I'll flip that right back onto yourself. When I think and in turn write I always keep a form of unknowable-utopia in mind for myself. That said culture, history and what ever excuse one could ever imagine would hold an absolute value of nothing. Therefor in this hypothetical world of my own, I can play with the idea of utopia itself and calculate how it would impact the world, if set forth into it with an unquestionable stature.

    What do you think would happen if the same level of gun control as they enforce in Japan was applied globally with a maintainable system, disco?
    I think that we would be living in a different world than the one which we currently inhabit.

    I try to formulate my answers in the real world. They've seemed to be much more durable that way.

    I've always thought it was a waste of my intellectual time to try and create hypothetical worlds where my answers might work as opposed to crafting my answers to work in the world in which we currently live.

  7. #597
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    I think that we would be living in a different world than the one in which we currently inhabit.

    I try to formulate my answers in the real world. They've seemed to be much more durable that way.

    I've always thought it was a waste of my intellectual time to try and create hypothetical worlds where my answers might work as opposed to crafting my answers to work in the world in which we currently live.
    What we have here is a good ol' fashioned Mexican standoff.

  8. #598
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    Quote Originally Posted by Within View Post
    What we have here is a good ol' fashioned Mexican standoff.
    Yea I think I might not be an N.

    The older I've gotten the more I approach problems like an engineer as opposed to a philosopher.

  9. #599
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    Yea I think I might not be an N.

    The older I've gotten the more I approach problems like an engineer as opposed to a philosopher.
    What's the difference ?
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  10. #600
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    Quote Originally Posted by Within View Post
    What we have here is a good ol' fashioned Mexican standoff.
    http://www.amazon.com/Conflict-Visio...ict+of+visions

    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    What's the difference ?
    Would you rather ride on an airplane designed by an engineer or a philosopher?
    1w2-6w5-3w2 so/sp

    "I took one those personality tests. It came back negative." - Dan Mintz

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