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  1. #571
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Hey @ByMySword, thanks so much for that link to the liberal gun owner's essay.

    The opening part involving the shooting statistics is actually something I've mulled over independently since this incident occurred. Statistically, this incident seems to be negligible, and I had already been considering it in the same light as plane crashes; emotionally, it's HUGE because of the needlessness of the shooting, the age of the victims, feelings of helplessness, and the speed at which large quantities of information can blaze across the country, providing a sense of intimacy to the event regardless of locale. Still, a decision based solely on strength of emotion does not guarantee (and might undermine) a long-term solution for preventing such incidents in the future.

    I've also felt a lot of social pressure to not even bring up such points (statistical comparison to other data) because it sounds impersonal enough for some to view it as offensive, although it should be clear that as a parent and human being I feel shock and outrage over incidents such as this one. I just find it difficult to discuss data when people are still grieving or experiencing overwhelming fear.

    The main issue of concern to me -- the "semi-automatic / assault rifle" -- was ambiguous, and I raised it with the caveat that I better wanted to understand it, so I should say that this article was very informative for me. I honestly don't think many people understand the nomenclature or concerns here; I also expect when "assault" weapons are imagined, people think of Jesse Ventura's minigun from "Predator" with its endless supply of rounds.
    Im reading it right now. Quite good.

  2. #572
    royal member Rasofy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sprinkles View Post
    Aren't you in Brazil?
    Correct.
    What's the deal there?
    We have a pretty strict policy. The only people allowed to have rifles are the police, the army, and trained security guards.

    That doesn't stop some drug dealers to own heavy weapons and control some slums, but the police is starting to win this battle.

    Judges, prosecutors, and people who have plausible justification are allowed to have some handguns, but the process is rigid.

    As a rule, hunting is a crime here. Which leaves no excuse for civilians to carry snipers.

    In 2011 there was a shooting, with 13 deaths: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rio_de_...chool_shooting

    Guy was carrying 2 handguns, which he had acquired from friends. These friends had probably acquired the weapons and ammo when the gun control was minimal.

    Shootings here are pretty rare though. Last one happened in 1999, when a medicine student went full retard in the cinema while watching a Fight Club.

    You just made me think of something that is quite relevant, but I think it would be in poor taste to bring it up unless necessary.
    Go ahead. Our murder rates aren't something to be proud of, but I think they could be worse.

  3. #573
    ByMySword
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Hey @ByMySword, thanks so much for that link to the liberal gun owner's essay.
    You are very welcome! Yes, he does a great job of answering really specific questions. And he has the sources to back them up. I think this article is revolutionary because of its source and its method.

  4. #574
    Mojibake sprinkles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasofy View Post
    Correct.

    We have a pretty strict policy. The only people allowed to have rifles are the police, the army, and trained security guards.

    That doesn't stop some drug dealers to own heavy weapons and control some slums, but the police is starting to win this battle.

    Judges, prosecutors, and people who have plausible justification are allowed to have some handguns, but the process is rigid.

    As a rule, hunting is a crime here. Which leaves no excuse for civilians to carry snipers.

    In 2011 there was a shooting, with 13 deaths: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rio_de_...chool_shooting

    Guy was carrying 2 handguns, which he had acquired from friends. These friends had probably acquired the weapons and ammo when the gun control was minimal.

    Shootings here are pretty rare though. Last one happened in 1999, when a medicine student went full retard in the cinema while watching a Fight Club.


    Go ahead. Our murder rates aren't something to be proud of, but I think they could be worse.
    I'm not going to make the comparison because it is wrong.

    I'm not even a big fan of guns. I grew up in the worst part of Detroit. I saw and heard a lot of violence there. I've had guns pulled on me for being in the wrong place at the wrong time. My grandmother's house got shot up because they were going after the house next door and didn't care what they hit.

    I could have let it get me down. Instead I made it a point to learn everything about guns and try to understand the people who use them. I've seen murderers first hand. I've seen a lot of stupid people. But I've also seen a lot of smart people who would never hurt anyone.

    I think I do that with everything. It's better to decide from knowledge and understanding.

    The thing I don't understand yet is why we have to keep being spiteful to each other.

  5. #575
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randomnity View Post
    Huh? Norway already has pretty strict gun laws, certainly compared to the US. It makes more sense to look at the situation to see which things could be easily changed and which would be the most effective efforts. If a country is already very good at something, improving it further is (generally speaking) less effective than improving a major weakness.

    Increased gun control laws would be far more noticeable in a country where many people have multiple guns vs. a country where few people use guns, which is partially why they're more difficult/unpopular to implement in the former situation.
    Despite their laws there is still 1 gun for every 3 persons in Norway which is a significantly higher rate of guns than the UK if still lower than the US. Moreover, as best I can tell in Norway higher caliber semiautomatic rifles are still legal for civilians along with lower caliber semiautomatic handguns. There are a number of areas in the US where handguns and semis are outright banned for civillian use. The one significant difference is the bureaucratic hurdle to ownership in Norway of obtaining a license and undergoing a 30 hour course and test which proved to be easier for Breivik than obtaining illegal weapons.

    There's also a huge difference between one horrible isolated event vs. a clear pattern of similar and tragically common events. When you see something happening over and over again, you start wondering about how it could be prevented or reduced. I don't think anyone is saying that gun control would ever eliminate mass shootings, but it's not unreasonable to wonder if reduced access to assault weapons might reduce the number of assault weapons which are used to kill people very effectively in a short period of time.
    You're right that's not unreasonable to wonder. But, I do have to question whether the gun laws passed immediately after rampage shootings are based on reasoned analysis or emotional response. Certainly the tremendous public support for such laws is going to be based largely on emotion. The question is whether the politicians are just following that emotional wave or using it to push forward a well reasoned policy. Thankfully in the US we have a division of powers that gives us some, albeit deteriorating, protection from the emotional whims of the people.
    Take the weakest thing in you
    And then beat the bastards with it
    And always hold on when you get love
    So you can let go when you give it

  6. #576
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    This was passed along to me by one of my NCOs. I know that Australia is often cited by some members on this forum as a positive example about how gun restrictions have worked in other countries. This video asserts the opposite. I'll let you draw your own conclusions from it, but I thought it was interesting.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8RDWltHxRc

  7. #577
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    The man at 1:28 looks as stereotypically Australian as possible.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  8. #578
    Freaking Ratchet Rail Tracer's Avatar
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    NRA Scapegoat #1: Video Games

    Not really a big shock. What isn't said is what is behind the scenes.

    Think of GTA. Think of the in-game billboards. Notice any significance?

    Let's head back to the supporters of the NRA for a second, just like many other companies that use gaming for advertisement, firearms companies and the military actively use video games as advertisement. No? I can name a few off the top of my head.

    Call of Duty Series, America's Army, Battlefield Series. The three I mention does not even come close to how many shooters the military and firearms companies used for advertisements.

    It isn't all black and white because of of these same companies that are also creating these war games also want to make their games as "realistic" (note: Eye Candy) as possible.

    So that is one factor, but the NRA is FAR from correct for using video games as a scapegoat when most information about video game violence is inconclusive.

    What is conclusive, however, is the use of advertisements and propaganda by these people (supporters of the NRA and the military.)

  9. #579
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    Ugh!... Just when I thought that this annoying thread had died...

    Edit: Oh, well, while I'm here...

    This kind of thing is part of why I won't ever support a gun ban. People are so stupid. Concede an inch, and they attempt to take a mile. I don't trust people for a second. Yes, I realize that it isn't in the US, and it's kind of old... That's not the point. To me, it illustrates the mindset of those I consider myself to be opposing.
    ...

  10. #580
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrinth View Post
    Ugh!... Just when I thought that this annoying thread had died...
    Not my fault.

    It is better to keep their mouth shut than to relieve all doubt sometimes. I do not have a problem with people owning guns. I have problems with people like the NRA head who decided to use someone, anybody as a scapegoat without realizing how much they (and the military) are to do to these so called violent games.

    If they are going to call on the media and violent video games, we may as well call out on them that they are the ones that allowed these games in fill the airwaves anyways.

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