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  1. #521
    ByMySword
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    Quote Originally Posted by AphroditeGoneAwry View Post
    It's not about guns at all. It's about parents being able to get away with abusing their children and nobody stopping it.
    Did I miss something? Are they saying that the shooter was abused by his mother?

  2. #522
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ByMySword View Post
    Did I miss something? Are they saying that the shooter was abused by his mother?

    All those mass murder types were abused in some way as children, I'm sure.

    No human just turns out to be a murderer. It comes from a traumatic childhood.
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  3. #523
    Mojibake sprinkles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Il Morto Che Parla View Post
    What perspective? I never said nobody can own a gun in the UK. But it is very limited who can own one.
    Yeah. I'm sorry, I forgot what your stance is. It's hard to keep track anymore when some people don't even say what they mean.

    We've had a few "NO GUN IS EVER SAFE BAN THEM ALL" people in here and I can't remember if you are one of them or not.

  4. #524
    Mojibake sprinkles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ByMySword View Post
    Did I miss something? Are they saying that the shooter was abused by his mother?
    I don't know but apparently she was looking to have him committed and it's speculated that he reacted adversely to that.

  5. #525
    ByMySword
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    Quote Originally Posted by Il Morto Che Parla View Post
    Each to their own. A lot of massacre survivors and victims relatives probably disagree. They are "price" society is prepared to pay for a "freedom" whose benefits nobody has realistically defended.
    That is somewhat subjective on both points. For the victims, they have a subjective view based on their experiences that firearms helped cause the pain that they feel because of this tragedy. I can sympathize with this.

    On the other hand, gun proponents believe that the most tangible benefits stem most from their ability to protect themselves from those that would do them harm. Ironically the same types of people which hurt the victims. They just have a different interpretation.

    Another tangible, albeit less so today, is hunting. I hunt every year and the animals I harvest make up a considerable amount of the food that I consume throughout the year. I realize this subsistence thinking is more rare today, but the very fact that there are those that do it make it a relevant argument.

    From a less tangible perspective, they believe the benefit is not gun ownership in and of itself, but the principle of it.

    I personally believe that both the reasons of gun proponents have been realistically defended clearly and concisely, the intricacies of which we are still discussing.

  6. #526
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AphroditeGoneAwry View Post
    All those mass murder types were abused in some way as children, I'm sure.

    No human just turns out to be a murderer. It comes from a traumatic childhood.
    Where did you get your psychiatry degree?

  7. #527
    ByMySword
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    Quote Originally Posted by AphroditeGoneAwry View Post
    All those mass murder types were abused in some way as children, I'm sure.

    No human just turns out to be a murderer. It comes from a traumatic childhood.
    Or it comes from a lack of social cues or norms. Its not always nurture. I believe that at times, its nature.

    From the nurture argument, you could also cite the desensitization of American society to violence.

    I actually discuss my ideas on the desensitization of society in the Gun Appreciation thread.

    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...=1#post2011866

    Quote Originally Posted by sprinkles View Post
    I don't know but apparently she was looking to have him committed and it's speculated that he reacted adversely to that.
    Well if that's true, then even more fault lies on her for not taking the proper precautions with her firearms. Truly a sad predicament.

  8. #528
    Mojibake sprinkles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ByMySword View Post
    Well if that's true, then even more fault lies on her for not taking the proper precautions with her firearms. Truly a sad predicament.
    Yeah. We're talking about committing an adult against their will. Which generally means that a court must determine that they are unfit to take care of their self or whatever. Not the time to be having guns around if you ask me.

  9. #529
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Where did you get your psychiatry degree?
    I have my Ni.D. Yep, that's 'Doctor' to you.

    Quote Originally Posted by ByMySword View Post
    Or it comes from a lack of social cues or norms. Its not always nurture. I believe that at times, its nature.
    Were they raised by a pack of rabid wolves?

    From the nurture argument, you could also cite the desensitization of American society to violence.

    I actually discuss my ideas on the desensitization of society in the Gun Appreciation thread.

    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...=1#post2011866

    I will have to check that out. Desensitization is an interesting issue. I see it especially displayed in sexual lasciviousness in our culture as someone (Kyuuie?) pointed out in another thread....

    But desensitization does not cause murder. It might cause numbness or apathy or one to be ineffectual, but it does not make someone go on a murdering rampage.

    Only buried rage does that.


    And, I'll say it again, it has nothing whatsoever to do with guns, in that you would have to take guns from every family, everywhere, because you never know who might be raising enraged children...And that is not feasible. They will just find another way to unleash their rage on others, as has been pointed out.
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  10. #530
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ByMySword View Post
    Well, despite that the facts presented there are obviously false, I do think that there is a facet of truth in the diminishing of masculinity in not only schools, but society. As a former teacher, I've seen it myself. I'm not advocating the use of machismo to solve every issue, I'm just saying that the "boys will be boys" saying has indeed gone out the window.

    I do understand why that has happened. But idealistically speaking, wouldn't it be nice if two kids got in a fist fight, they fight it out, they're taken to the principal's office, and they talk it out? That's what happened with several of the kids that I fought when I was in school, and with many we ended up becoming good friends. By nature, I think there is a primitive need for boys to act this way. Unfortunately, due to the many other complexities of this issue, its no longer this simple. Now they feel the need to bring a gun or knife to a fist fight. Sad, really.
    Well, if you look at my entire post that you quoted from and read between the lines, you'll see I think there is some truth in that, I was just focus on the line you quoted (by her word choice) as the obvious tipoff she was just riffing off the shooting for her own song. It is a pretty versatile tragedy, because everyone seems to be nabbing it and launching their own soapbox from it.

    I raised two boys, and I've dealt with them, their friends, the boys at church, etc.; and honestly, there's just a certain amount of roughhousing that goes on. I do not think that is a bad thing. And it doesn't really bother me for boys to on occasion whack each other and get it out of their system. I also wasn't one to be upset if my kids needed to defend themselves, even if the schools typically blame both parties for any incidents.

    Did you see the incident the other day, where the 11 year old brought a gun to school because his parents said he needed to defend himself? I'm not sure if that was discovered to be false, but that's what the article I saw said. Except that the boy was pointing the gun at peers and telling them he was going to kill them, and then said he'd also kill them if they finked on him. It was crazy enough he felt he needed the gun to protect himself, but then it's pretty clear he was doing far more than defending himself.
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