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  1. #391
    my floof is luxury Wind Up Rex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Il Morto Che Parla View Post
    The US has many more guns than Western Europe per capita. The highest West European country was Switzerland, and it has half the amount of the US.

    Irrelevant?
    If my intention was to poke a hole in your statement about the number of guns in Europe, then yeah, the number of guns in the US is irrelavent.


    But banning guns, that's just unrealistic.
    Yeah, actually, it is. A total gun ban like the one ya'll have in the UK is completely unfeasible in the US.

    I mean, assuming you could get 2/3rds of both the House of Representatives and the Senate followed by 38 states to go along with the Constitutional amendment required (you couldn't, btw), there would still be the logistical challenge of somehow collecting 300 million firearms without somehow obliterating what's left of the 4th Amendment.

    So, if this discussion is to be realistic, then you have to recognize that what we're discussing is some sort of quasi-measure. Like banning assault weapons (which we've already done), or limiting the access that the mentally ill have to weapons (also already done), or limiting the size of magazines on guns. As I pointed out in an earlier post, major urban areas like Chicago and DC who in the past banned guns unilaterally actually saw gun violence increase.

    So guns are just a fact of our countries existance. Nothing can be done about that. I've already stated where I think there's room for real change, and don't particularly feel like repeating myself. But as it turns out (and while I'm aware you were being snarky) it is entirely possible that we're not too many national tragedies away from being a country that looks like Switzerland. It might even be this one. Too soon to tell.
    And so long as you haven’t experienced this: to die and so to grow,
    you are only a troubled guest on the dark earth

  2. #392
    my floof is luxury Wind Up Rex's Avatar
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    I'd also like to throw out there that for all that Europe is all great and enlightened and shit now it's only because you fuckers were sufficiently traumatized by WWII to get your acts together. If you wanna moralize about senseless violence, you might wanna start by checking out your own history books first.
    And so long as you haven’t experienced this: to die and so to grow,
    you are only a troubled guest on the dark earth

  3. #393
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    The brother of another school murder/suicide perpetrator speaks to the underlying societal problems that have led to these tragedies and reinforces that we don't have failing gun and healthcare policies, but we have failing families and communities (including his own).

    http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/20...l-flaws-again/

    “And all the time–such is the tragi-comedy of our situation–we continue to clamour for those very qualities we are rendering impossible. You can hardly open a periodical without coming across the statement that what our civilization needs is more ‘drive,’ or dynamism, or self-sacrifice, or ‘creativity.’ In a sort of ghastly simplicity we remove the organ and demand the function. We make men without chests and expect of them virtue and enterprise. We laugh at honour and are shocked to find traitors in our midst. We castrate and bid the geldings be fruitful.”

    -C.S. Lewis,The Abolition of Man

    One of the first words I read about Newtown came in a Facebook post from New York Times columnist Nicholas Kristof, which read: “Reports suggest that some have been killed in this latest Connecticut school shooting, with heartbreaking photos of kids fleeing the school. How many school and mall shootings before we regulate guns as seriously as cars?”

    ...

    Kristof’s question hurt because the problem is so much deeper than a question that implies that with the “right” law, this tragedy wouldn’t have happened (never mind that criminals always find a way to exist one step in front of the laws). Simple problem, simple solution. But it’s not a simple problem or solution, and I have a feeling it implicates more areas of our lives—basic assumptions we so enjoy trusting—than we’d care to admit. And a way forward might look a lot more like a way backwards than we’d be comfortable with, lovers of “progress” that we are.

    This dilemma illustrates well why I have so little hope for top-down policies to solve our real problems, the ones that make us tremble and fear and cry at night. Our legislation so often medicates effects and pretends we are solving the causes. Kristof’s question, and any new law we could write, would do nothing to acknowledge, let alone confront, that we are a society of depressed people, grasping for every numbing device in sight. You don’t just wake up one day and decide to shoot people; lives and schools and communities and churches and jobs and rejections and illnesses lead people there.

    ...

    Our policies–and our technology and culture–so often operate under the lie that we will legislate and technologize ourselves to perfection one day. We try to relieve ourselves from the very things we need: the vulnerability of intimacy, commitment to a real and tangible locality, a respect for limits, and a practice of gratitude. In his thoughtful essay, “The Politics of the Clothesline,”Skyler Reidy describes these two visions as a clash of industrial versus agrarian ideals. The industrial perspective, which is our default mode today, is encapsulated in the biblical story of Babel–one of the truest stories ever told– and we’re losing so many of our children, friends, and family members en route to that mythical perfect world, where we can say with finality, “I am the God of my existence.”Why does it surprise us when the machine technology we so worship can also be used to kill us?
    You can read about his thoughts on his own brother's tragedy here: http://jacksonville.com/opinion/2012...umerth-changed
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  4. #394

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    I might advise our European friends that Europe is not the USA, and that Americans are not the only ones capable of being ignorant of other cultures. When you tell us that making guns illegal is the solution, you sound like a person who lives in the desert telling a person who lives at the beach that the solution to drownings is to ban water.
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  5. #395
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    id give it a couple of more elementary school shootings before talks get a little more serious
    "I'm not in this world to live up to your expectations and you're not in this world to live up to mine. "
    -Bruce Lee

  6. #396
    Mojibake sprinkles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gasoline View Post
    id give it a couple of more elementary school shootings before talks get a little more serious
    Are you kidding? People are ADD goldfish over here. I think the only reason people remember other shootings is because OOH SHINY!

    What was I saying?

  7. #397
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Il Morto Che Parla View Post
    the fact that any idiot can buy a gun like it was "candy", is an insult to the intelligence.
    Funny, my kids never could walk into a store and buy handguns along with their Snickers and Now n Laters. Let's keep the hyperbole down a little, 'kay?

    ...

    I think comparisons are interesting.

    http://www.theegglestongroup.com/wri...tats/index.php

    Real Time Estimate
    Top 7 Causes of Death
    Since 1 Jan, 2012
    Cause ..................Annually .....To Date
    Tobacco: .............529,000 .....510,744
    Medical Errors: ......195,000..... 188,271
    Alcohol Abuse: ......107,400 .....103,694
    Vehicle Accidents:... 42,000 .....40,551
    Suicide:................. 29,350 ......28,337
    Drug Abuse: ...........25,500 ......24,620
    Firearm Homicide:.... 10,828 .....10,454



    yeesh. How about those psycho doctors?
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  8. #398
    Mojibake sprinkles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Funny, my kids never could walk into a store and buy handguns along with their Snickers and Now n Laters. Let's keep the hyperbole down a little, 'kay?

    ...

    I think comparisons are interesting.

    http://www.theegglestongroup.com/wri...tats/index.php

    Real Time Estimate
    Top 7 Causes of Death
    Since 1 Jan, 2012
    Cause ..................Annually .....To Date
    Tobacco: .............529,000 .....510,744
    Medical Errors: ......195,000..... 188,271
    Alcohol Abuse: ......107,400 .....103,694
    Vehicle Accidents:... 42,000 .....40,551
    Suicide:................. 29,350 ......28,337
    Drug Abuse: ...........25,500 ......24,620
    Firearm Homicide:.... 10,828 .....10,454



    yeesh. How about those psycho doctors?
    Yeah, crazy doctors.

    This is what 100,000 people looks like


    Doctors kill almost two of those stadiums.

  9. #399
    ... Tyrinth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    Same sort of thing.
    Hahahaha.

    ...And with such a simple sentence you prove you don't know what you're talking about, and I can no longer take you seriously.
    ...

  10. #400
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    Quote Originally Posted by Il Morto Che Parla View Post
    ...this is an international forum, and to see people who refuse to accept a correlation between massacres, and the fact that any idiot can buy a gun like it was "candy", is an insult to the intelligence.

    I understand what you mean. I walked into a pawn shop and purchased a handgun developed for use by special forces as an offensive weapon platform, not just a defensive sidearm. I had thought about purchasing, purchased, and was home with the firearm within two hours.


    But People go crazy, and not specifically with guns. I think the of the Bath Massacre, or this guy, Mutsuo Toi. He used a shotgun as well, but committed a significant number of the acts with a katana and axe.


    This chart is interesting:


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rampage_killers

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