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  1. #351
    Mojibake sprinkles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    Perhaps you misunderstand my point.

    You are arguing that assault rifles have a legitimate purpose in the hands of ordinary citizens. I'm arguing that they don't. They are unnecessary for hunting, so why not severely restrict their ownership? Allowing people to get their hands on guns like that just for the sake of them having the option isn't a good enough reason when you consider the stakes involved.
    Actually I'm not arguing that they have a legitimate purpose. All I was doing was correcting the misconception that one must spray bullets.

    Do I think there's a legitimate reason to use them for hunting? I don't think there really is. In my mind I kind of question it.

  2. #352
    unscannable Tigerlily's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AgentF View Post
    heartbreaking...

    It really is. Sad how some people refuse to see.

  3. #353
    Sweet Ocean Cloud SD45T-2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilkRoad View Post
    It was not a normal "hunting rifle", it was a rifle which is commonly referred to as an "assault weapon" - at least it has been reported in the media as such and it doesn't look like a hunting weapon to me.
    Correct.

    A military-style weapon adapted for "home defense" and for people who like playing with this type of thing.
    In a home defense role, an AR-15 is much more practical than a typical hunting rifle, such a Remington 700 in .308. That is unless you're defending your home from people who are 500 yards away.

    It is exactly the type of weapon that is now being discussed for regulation/ban - even, it seems, by certain members of the NRA!
    That is correct.

    From 1994 to 2004 we had the Federal Assault Weapons Ban. It's impact on crime overall (either good or bad) is generally considered to be too small and irregular to be meaningful.

    Quote Originally Posted by sprinkles View Post
    Why is that necessarily the case?

    I mean I don't think it's really necessary to do so but there's nothing inherently wrong with it. It doesn't kill the deer any more severely and if the correct gun and ammunition is used it doesn't over penetrate or poison the deer either. It's not unheard of to hunt with an AR-15. They come in different chamberings, such as .308

    Have you ever fired one? I think you haven't. You kind of have to in order to understand. I think you just don't know.

    Is it the big magazine? You don't have to shoot the whole mag. You can put a big mag on a hunting rifle and it will be the same thing.

    Is it because it's semi-automatic? Some hunting rifles are, too.

    Do I recommend it when somebody could use a bolty instead? Not necessarily, but it's not that big of a deal either.
    You beat me to it.

    Over the years, Remington (just to name one) has made a variety of semiauto hunting rifles offered in .243, .270, .308, etc.
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  4. #354
    Lay the coin on my tongue SilkRoad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SD45T-2 View Post

    From 1994 to 2004 we had the Federal Assault Weapons Ban. It's impact on crime overall (either good or bad) is generally considered to be too small and irregular to be meaningful.
    You may very well be right about that, I certainly don't have the statistics to question it.

    I do feel though - and this might just be a sort of emotional gut feeling, but I feel that these sorts of "assault weapons" tend to provide these sorts of heartless lunatics with "inspiration". Especially when they died with guns blazing and strapped with ammo and wearing a military bullet-proof vest. I just wonder if the appeal of this terrible fantasy would be as great with a less...military-looking weapon. I've already mentioned, which seems to be documented, that it is mostly this type of weapon used in such massacres, though other guns might "do the job" similarly.
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  5. #355
    Mojibake sprinkles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilkRoad View Post
    You may very well be right about that, I certainly don't have the statistics to question it.

    I do feel though - and this might just be a sort of emotional gut feeling, but I feel that these sorts of "assault weapons" tend to provide these sorts of heartless lunatics with "inspiration". Especially when they died with guns blazing and strapped with ammo and wearing a military bullet-proof vest. I just wonder if the appeal of this terrible fantasy would be as great with a less...military-looking weapon. I've already mentioned, which seems to be documented, that it is mostly this type of weapon used in such massacres, though other guns might "do the job" similarly.
    There might be something to that I think.

    I mean heck, the M14, which the M1A that I mentioned much earlier as having slipped under the assault weapons ban, is a full powered battle rifle - we're not talking a .223, it's called a battle rifle because it fires a powerful round, the .308 for the civilian model or 7.62x51mm for the military one.

    It doesn't look like it but this weapon is good enough that it is still used by military marksman to this day. But we don't see these massacres with one of these...

  6. #356
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilkRoad View Post
    but I feel that these sorts of "assault weapons" tend to provide these sorts of heartless lunatics with "inspiration".
    Based on what?

  7. #357
    Lay the coin on my tongue SilkRoad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    Based on what?
    Well, in part, the fact that these weapons seem to be repeatedly used in such massacres, although other types of guns/weapons would "work" too. The perpetrators also tend to dress in some sort of paramilitary gear, although if they commit suicide or plan to die, that doesn't seem necessary (ie. bulletproof vests).

    Like I said, it's just a feeling. I'm not claiming to have some statistical evidence. Why do you think these types of guns are used in these massacres, what is your opinion?
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  8. #358
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    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    Perhaps you misunderstand my point.

    You are arguing that assault rifles have a legitimate purpose in the hands of ordinary citizens. I'm arguing that they don't. They are unnecessary for hunting, so why not severely restrict their ownership? Allowing people to get their hands on guns like that just for the sake of them having the option isn't a good enough reason when you consider the stakes involved.
    Sport and recreation are legitimate reasons.

    Shooting my AR is ridiculously fun.

    And with something like 3.5 million other civilian owned AR-15's floating around, the rest of the shooting public seems to agree.

  9. #359
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    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    Let's put it this way, if you're hunting deer with an assault rifle there's something wrong with you.
    How about those who use them just to shoot paper targets or old washing machines?

  10. #360
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    How about those who use them just to shoot paper targets or old washing machines?
    Or gazebos. We have to be wary of the gazebo, it is a dangerous beastie.
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