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  1. #321
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    American Exceptionalism

    Quote Originally Posted by Wind-Up Rex View Post
    I am beginning to wonder if "gun control" is a wrong-headed shorthand for a cultural permissiveness towards violence that's much more difficult to grapple with.

    Or maybe what's harder to accept is that there really is no answer here.
    Yes, it is a surprise to discover that violence of all kinds has been declining throughout the world except in the USA where where murder rates have not declined for a century.

  2. #322
    Mojibake sprinkles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    Yes, it is a surprise to discover that violence of all kinds has been declining throughout the world except in the USA where where murder rates have not declined for a century.
    If you're going to speak bullshit you should at least try to make it a little convincing.

    I think this is the most absurd thing I've seen you say. And that is saying a lot.

  3. #323
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    That's not true, Victor. US murder rates have declined quite a bit since about 1990.

  4. #324
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    How about just banning guns and knives primarily designed to kill people? Hand guns, assault rifles, switch blades and flick knives - ordinary people have no need for such weapons.
    Let me guess, you thought confiscating toenail clippers from passengers before boarding a flight was a giant leap forward in preventing terrorism.
    Comments such as, "ordinary people have no need for..." smacks of a mind open as wide as the eye of a needle.

  5. #325
    Mojibake sprinkles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    That's not true, Victor. US murder rates have declined quite a bit since about 1990.
    Not only that but they were the highest ever in 1980.

    When Reagan came in they dropped a bit, comparable to levels in the late '20s

    Bush came in and they spiked again, when Clinton was in they were almost back to 1980 levels (but not quite)

    But between Eisenhower and Kennedy, we saw levels that were as low as they were in Taft's era, Just before Wilson came along. That's around 1907 to 1912.

    So in the past 100 years they have dropped at least once back to what they were 100 years ago.

  6. #326
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    Quote Originally Posted by Craic View Post
    Wait, I'm not clear on this. Are you saying that you are for what you mentioned...or you are against it?
    The tribes of Germany slaughtered a whole Roman army of three legions under Publius Quinctilius Varus east of the Rhine in 9 AD. And as consequence Roman rule never extended across the Rhine. This slaughter divided Europe between the Roman South and the Germanic North, lasting right up to the First World War and the Second World War.

    The USA is using the same Imperial techniques against the tribes of the Middle East. And the result is again defeat.

    And those who cannot remember the past are doomed to repeat it.

  7. #327
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    Quote Originally Posted by sprinkles View Post
    Not only that but they were the highest ever in 1980.

    When Reagan came in they dropped a bit, comparable to levels in the late '20s

    Bush came in and they spiked again, when Clinton was in they were almost back to 1980 levels (but not quite)

    But between Eisenhower and Kennedy, we saw levels that were as low as they were in Taft's era, Just before Wilson came along. That's around 1907 to 1912.

    So in the past 100 years they have dropped at least once back to what they were 100 years ago.
    I take my statistics from Steve Pinker's book, "The Better Angels of our Nature".

    Steve Pinker also says that the American rate of murders of all kinds - shootings, stabings, stranglings, poisonings, pushing people under buses, etc - is seven times higher than 22 other rich countries.

    He also gives a cogent explanation of why this is the case, and it is not due to guns.

    The USA is a more violent society, he says, for historical reasons.

  8. #328
    Mojibake sprinkles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    I take my statistics from Steve Pinker's book, "The Better Angels of our Nature".
    And that makes them valid because....?

    Steve Pinker also says that the American rate of murders of all kinds - shootings, stabings, stranglings, poisonings, pushing people under buses, etc - is seven times higher than 22 other rich countries.
    I don't know how precise that is but I can agree that it is a sensible estimate. No problem there.

    He also gives a cogent explanation of why this is the case, and it is not due to guns.

    The USA is a more violent society, he says, for historical reasons.
    That actually made sense. It was even coherent. I can probably agree with it. Are you feeling well?

  9. #329
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    Quote Originally Posted by sprinkles View Post
    And that makes them valid because....?
    Meet Steve Pinker by clicking on - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_Pinker

  10. #330
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    Meet Steve Pinker by clicking on - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_Pinker
    Sounds like a smart man.

    I still wouldn't take his word on statistics though.

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