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  1. #291
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    Considering how many men I know who were attacked by women using butcher knives, I think we should ban steel cutlery. We can eat with plastic.
    This is good logic, because you can't prevent all crime, don't try to prevent any.

    Remind me last time there was a mass school knife massacre in the UK...

    Oh, and about the woman who killed her husband by repeatedly running over his body with a Mercedes— ban those cars. Clearly, they're the cause of women gone wild.

    BMW's are fine.
    I agree. BMW > Mercedes.

  2. #292
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    But if that was really so, I'ld ask myself whats wrong then and not hand out more weapons to do even more damage.
    .
    The point is using guns for self-defense causes less damage, by protecting victims while crimes are taking place and by discouraging criminal acts in the first place. That is not to say that certain restrictions might not have utilitarian benifits, but your statements were all-encompassing and, IMO, fail to pass the costs-benifits analysis test.

  3. #293
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    The point is using guns for self-defense causes less damage, by protecting victims while crimes are taking place and by discouraging criminal acts in the first place. That is not to say that certain restrictions might not have utilitarian benifits, but your statements were all-encompassing and, IMO, fail to pass the costs-benifits analysis test.
    I didnt understand what you have said.

    Imho the world aint black and white like americans sometimes like to put it so eloquently. And to say that weapons are for protecting victims that maybe works in hollywood. But in the real world, the majority of weapon owners cant deal with them responsibly.

    Its a brilliant tautology in my opinion: "the most unreasonably thing is to claim more weapons for people for self-defense who are supposed to deal with them responsible."

    I mean think about that, if you claim to have an objective NT look on things, you could start here.
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  4. #294
    Senior Member Winds of Thor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    Who are you kidding? The USA treats the tribes of the Middle East in the same way Rome treated the tribes of Germany. And with the same result.
    Wait, I'm not clear on this. Are you saying that you are for what you mentioned...or you are against it?
    "..And the eight and final rule: If this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight."
    'Men are meant to be with women. The rest is perversion and mental illness.'

  5. #295
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    But in the real world, the majority of weapon owners cant deal with them responsibly.

    I mean think about that, if you claim to have an objective NT look on things, you could start here.
    That's the kind of statement you have to back up with evidence.

    You mean objective things like peer-reviewed criminology surveys and statistical evidence?

    As for (literally?) not understanding what I said, tell me where the confusion is, and I'll explain with different syntax (after I get back from the grocery store, anyway).

  6. #296
    ... Tyrinth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    But in the real world, the majority of weapon owners cant deal with them responsibly.
    How do you figure...?
    ...

  7. #297
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Il Morto Che Parla View Post
    This is good logic sarcasm.
    Fixed. And thanks.

  8. #298
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    Considering how many men I know who were attacked by women using butcher knives, I think we should ban steel cutlery. We can eat with plastic.
    No, plastic cutlery is bad for the environment. I think you'll need to use your fingers.

    On the other hand, fingers lead to picking one's nose and texting while driving. We will have to remove those too. Thank you for ysoujfh isefhhshd dfnhsd
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  9. #299
    my floof is luxury Wind Up Rex's Avatar
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    So, after some research on the whole gun control subject, my position has "evolved" somewhat. Apparently, the business in Australia that everyone keeps citing is more the exception than the rule. In most instances, homicide rates and gun violence rates actually increase after bans have been put into effect. Additionally, states like Florida and Texas with right-to-carry laws actually have lower murder rates after the law has taken effect. A couple of case studies to illustrate the point:

    Washington, D.C.

    * In 1976, the Washington, D.C. City Council passed a law generally prohibiting residents from possessing handguns and requiring that all firearms in private homes be kept unloaded and rendered temporally inoperable via disassembly or installation of a trigger lock. The law became operative on Sept. 24, 1976.

    * On June 26, 2008, the U.S. Supreme Court, in a 5-4 ruling, struck down this law as unconstitutional.



    * During the years in which the D.C. handgun ban and trigger lock law was in effect, the Washington, D.C. murder rate averaged 73% higher than it was at the outset of the law, while the U.S. murder rate averaged 11% lower.

    Chicago

    * In 1982, the city of Chicago instituted a ban on handguns. This ban barred civilians from possessing handguns except for those registered with the city government prior to enactment of the law. The law also specified that such handguns had to be re-registered every two years or owners would forfeit their right to possess them. In 1994, the law was amended to require annual re-registration.

    * In the wake of Chicago's handgun ban, at least five suburbs surrounding Chicago instituted similar handgun bans. When the Supreme Court overturned the District of Columbia's handgun ban in June 2008, at least four of these suburbs repealed their bans.

    * In June 2010, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled (5-4) that Chicago's ban is unconstitutional.



    * Since the outset of the Chicago handgun ban, the Chicago murder rate has averaged 17% lower than it was before the law took effect, while the U.S. murder rate has averaged 25% lower. However...



    * Since the outset of the Chicago handgun ban, the percentage of Chicago murders committed with handguns has averaged about 40% higher than it was before the law took effect.

    * In 2005, 96% of the firearm murder victims in Chicago were killed with handguns.

    Britain

    * In 1968, Britain made the 1920 law stricter by requiring civilians to obtain a certificate from their district police chief in order to purchase or possess a shotgun. This law also required that firearm certificates specify the identification numbers ("if known") of all firearms and shotguns owned by the applicant.

    * In 1997, Britain passed a law requiring civilians to surrender almost all privately owned handguns to the police. More than 162,000 handguns and 1.5 million pounds of ammunition were "compulsorily surrendered" by February 1998. Using "records of firearms held on firearms certificates," police accounted for all but fewer than eight of all legally owned handguns in England, Scotland, and Wales.



    * The homicide rate in England and Wales has averaged 52% higher since the outset of the 1968 gun control law and 15% higher since the outset of the 1997 handgun ban.

    Right-to-Carry Laws - Florida

    * On October 1, 1987, Florida's right-to-carry law became effective.

    * This law requires that concealed carry licensees be 21 years of age or older, have clean criminal/mental health records, and complete a firearms safety/training course.

    * As of July 31, 2010, Florida has issued 1,825,143 permits and has 746,430 active licensees,[105] constituting roughly 5.4% of the state's population that is 21 years of age or older.



    * Since the outset of the Florida right-to-carry law, the Florida murder rate has averaged 36% lower than it was before the law took effect, while the U.S. murder rate has averaged 15% lower.

    * From the outset of the Florida right-to-carry law through July 31, 2010, Florida has revoked 5,674 or 0.3% of all issued permits. Of these:

    • 522 permits were revoked for crimes committed prior to licensure

    • 4,955 permits were revoked for crimes committed after licensure, of which 168 involved the usage of a firearm.

    Right-to-Carry - Texas

    * In January 1996, Texas's right-to-carry law became effective.

    * This law requires that concealed carry licensees be at least 21 years of age (or 18 years of age if a member or veteran of the U.S. armed forces), have clean criminal/mental health records, and complete a handgun proficiency course.

    * In 2009, Texas had 402,914 active licensees, constituting roughly 2.4% of the state's population that is 21 years of age or older.



    * Since the outset of the Texas right-to-carry law, the Texas murder rate has averaged 30% lower than it was before the law took effect, while the U.S. murder rate has averaged 28% lower.

    Source
    ________

    The point is that there's evidently something to this idea that guns do function as a deterrent, or at least there's not necessarily a correlation between gun ownership and gun violence. As suggested by this graph:



    There's a lot I admittedly don't understand about this issue, but I am beginning to wonder if "gun control" is a wrong-headed shorthand for a cultural permissiveness towards violence that's much more difficult to grapple with.

    Or maybe what's harder to accept is that there really is no answer here.
    And so long as you haven’t experienced this: to die and so to grow,
    you are only a troubled guest on the dark earth

  10. #300
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    No, plastic cutlery is bad for the environment. I think you'll need to use your fingers.

    On the other hand, fingers lead to picking one's nose and texting while driving. We will have to remove those too. Thank you for ysoujfh isefhhshd dfnhsd
    Look, you tree-hugging witchy-poo, don't mess with me or I'll drain my sinuses in your presence.

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