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  1. #231
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    Quote Originally Posted by sprinkles View Post
    The military does sell off its old hardware.

    When's the last time a nuke killed somebody, by the way?

    In fact, a lot of stuff that was used in Iraq was just handed over to them for free because they couldn't be bothered to haul it all back. To the tune of billions of dollars.
    I don't think you got my point.

  2. #232
    Senior Member Winds of Thor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    Western Civilization began in Ancient Greece. And the Ancient Greeks gave us two values: freedom and equality.

    To the heritage from Ancient Greece we added Judaism, Christianity and the Enlightenment. And the Enlightenment in particular rejuvenated our basic values of freedom and equality.

    To the extent the USA denies half of the values of the West, is the extent the USA betrays the West.
    'We', which does not include the same 'we' to which you often try to create/refer to (which doesn't really exist), formed our country on a different set of principles. Fundamentally good principles. And 'we' give the finger to the old world. And we don't care what anybody thinks either. Which is why it's funny why you keep coming here trying to tear down the United States. Peace. And God bless you @Victor.
    "..And the eight and final rule: If this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight."
    'Men are meant to be with women. The rest is perversion and mental illness.'

  3. #233
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    Quote Originally Posted by Il Morto Che Parla View Post
    I don't think you got my point.
    You're right, I don't.

    Are you saying that nukes are really dangerous and need to be regulated by the military? I won't argue with that.

    But the fact that two nuclear bombs were dropped for effect (not testing) in the entire history of warfare shows that people kill people. They killed people with the nukes back then, and are not killing people with the nukes now.

    The nukes still exist and have gotten better. They can be fired from a submarine out into the edge of space where a dozen independent warheads are released and guide themselves to multiple independent targets on a ballistic, no-return trajectory to level a city.

    When's the last time that happened? Never.

  4. #234
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    Quote Originally Posted by Craic View Post
    'We', which does not include the same 'we' to which you often try to create/refer to (which doesn't really exist), formed our country on a different set of principles. Fundamentally good principles. And 'we' give the finger to the old world. And we don't care what anybody thinks either. Which is why it's funny why you keep coming here trying to tear down the United States. Peace. And God bless you @Victor.
    No matter how hard you try, you can't escape your past. Just look at the architecture of your Capital - it's based on Imperial Rome.

  5. #235
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    Quote Originally Posted by sprinkles View Post
    You're right, I don't.

    Are you saying that nukes are really dangerous and need to be regulated by the military? I won't argue with that.
    No. I am extending the logic of "guns don't kill people, people kill people" ad absurdum to military hardware and nuclear weapons to demonstrate its...absurdity.

  6. #236
    Mojibake sprinkles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Il Morto Che Parla View Post
    No. I am extending the logic of "guns don't kill people, people kill people" ad absurdum to military hardware and nuclear weapons to demonstrate its...absurdity.
    It will be absurd when Skynet comes online and decides to eliminate the human race.

  7. #237
    Senior Member Winds of Thor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    No matter how hard you try, you can't escape your past. Just look at the architecture of your Capital - it's based on Imperial Rome.
    @Victor, you're the one here who seems to not be able to let everyone and things be. Good luck with that, man.
    "..And the eight and final rule: If this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight."
    'Men are meant to be with women. The rest is perversion and mental illness.'

  8. #238
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    Quote Originally Posted by sprinkles View Post
    It will be absurd when Skynet comes online and decides to eliminate the human race.
    I didn't get the reference, sorry. Call it 1-1.

    Weapons facilitate killing people. The better weapons you have, the more easily and quickly you can kill more people. If you have widely available weapons which make it easy to kill large numbers of people quickly, then any sick fuck can do so.

    You can say "the responsibility is on people to change", well in that case make all tools of mass murder legal and freely available, and just "trust" people not to misuse them. If someone objects, then just as people currently say "if we take away guns the bad guys will just use knives", we can say "if we take away tanks and landmines then bad guys will just use guns".

  9. #239
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    Quote Originally Posted by Il Morto Che Parla View Post
    I didn't get the reference, sorry. Call it 1-1.

    Weapons facilitate killing people. The better weapons you have, the more easily and quickly you can kill more people. If you have widely available weapons which make it easy to kill large numbers of people quickly, then any sick fuck can do so.

    You can say "the responsibility is on people to change", well in that case make all tools of mass murder legal and freely available, and just "trust" people not to misuse them. If someone objects, then just as people currently say "if we take away guns the bad guys will just use knives", we can say "if we take away tanks and landmines then bad guys will just use guns".
    The responsibility is on people, but it is not a zero sum game.

    I made the Skynet reference because in that case machines literally rise up and start killing people. Otherwise, there's a human behind it.

    This doesn't mean you should never make a rule. It just means that you make the rule for the right reasons. Some times that means you don't get to have something, like a nuke for example. People still kill people.

  10. #240
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    Quote Originally Posted by sprinkles View Post
    This doesn't mean you should never make a rule. It just means that you make the rule for the right reasons.
    ok so what would the right reasons for banning some weapons and not others?

    People still kill people.
    With weapons. It is supposed by the "international community" that Ahmadinejad with a nuke is more dangerous than Ahmadinejad without a nuke.

    Sorry to keep referencing nukes. It is basic and not very appealing from the literary POV, yet it makes the point effectively.

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