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  1. #151
    Mojibake sprinkles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Posting this to stimulate more conversation, I'm still thinking about it.
    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/16/op...this.html?_r=0
    I can get on board with that. Guns are serious business and are not to be simply ignored.

    However, the attention truly needs to be paid to handguns the most as they are used to kill the most people by far. Long guns are actually down somewhere with knives on the list. (that's not to say we shouldn't be more careful with those, too) Yes it's extremely easy to get a gun - a long gun. People need to not mix these two up when saying 'guns' because they are handled in a vastly different manner from each other.

  2. #152
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    here's a slight tangent:

    NEW YORK, N.Y. - The U.S. premiere of the Tom Cruise action movie "Jack Reacher" is being postponed following the deadly Connecticut school shooting.

    Paramount Pictures says "out of honour and respect for the families of the victims" the premiere won't take place Saturday in Pittsburgh, where "Jack Reacher" was filmed.

    The premiere would've been Cruise's first U.S. media appearance since his split from Katie Holmes over the summer. It was to be more contained with select outlets covering and a location away from Hollywood or New York.

    A proclamation ceremony for Cruise had been planned with Pennsylvania Gov. Tom Corbett and Pittsburgh Mayor Luke Ravenstahl.
    http://news.yahoo.com/paramount-post...065012238.html

    as far as I know, this movie has nothing to do with school shootings -- it's just your next Tom Cruise action pic. Is this being driven by the desire to look sensitive and get more press for a movie that hasn't been heavily promoted (I've heard little about it, aside from an occasional preview), or would people connect a Tom Cruise action pic involving shooting guns with a school shooting (entirely different context, as well as premiere location), or they figure that attendance would be down anyway, so this is their way of rescheduling, or... what?
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

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  3. #153
    Don't pet me. JAVO's Avatar
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  4. #154
    Senior Member Bamboo's Avatar
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    I'm all for improved mental health practices, and campaigns to encourage support for those groups.

    It was gross negligence for the homeowner (mother) to not do a better job at locking up her guns. I'm not a believer that every gun needs 5 safeties and a padlock, but if you have a mentally unstable child, spouse, or anyone else who could have access, you need to be smart. If you have a young child you need to lock it up, period.

    I think that culture does play a role in how these things turn out. The USA has unique problems, but they are not inherent problems. For one, I feel that the glorification aspect of firearms attracts all the wrong people.
    Don't know how much it'll bend til it breaks.

  5. #155
    Mojibake sprinkles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JAVO View Post
    This guy is pretty awesome and seems to know what he's talking about.

    It's a shame to have to resort to such a thing. But ultimately he's right. If you're going to die anyway, a basic distraction and just diving the attacker can be very effective.

    It doesn't take a lot of training and you don't need a gun. Young kids probably need a different solution though.


    Quote Originally Posted by Bamboo View Post
    I'm all for improved mental health practices, and campaigns to encourage support for those groups.

    It was gross negligence for the homeowner (mother) to not do a better job at locking up her guns. I'm not a believer that every gun needs 5 safeties and a padlock, but if you have a mentally unstable child, spouse, or anyone else who could have access, you need to be smart. If you have a young child you need to lock it up, period.

    I think that culture does play a role in how these things turn out. The USA has unique problems, but they are not inherent problems. For one, I feel that the glorification aspect of firearms attracts all the wrong people.
    I figure if you don't have access to your weapon at all times, some kind of gun lock should be used. It of course makes no sense to lock up a home defense weapon, but having free weapons ready to be used is always going to be a liability. And nobody should have to be the one out of a hundred thousand or whatever that actually has their weapon used by another person with a tragic outcome.

    However, even locks don't do anything if somebody gets the keys.

  6. #156
    Senior Member LEGERdeMAIN's Avatar
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    social isolation kills
    “Some people will tell you that slow is good – but I’m here to tell you that fast is better. I’ve always believed this, in spite of the trouble it’s caused me. Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba…”


  7. #157
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    The USA is now part of the global village and all the world now sees what happens in the USA and feels what happens in the USA in real time.

    And it is plain to us that the USA is in denial about guns. And statistics backs this up.

  8. #158
    Vulnerability Eilonwy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    here's a slight tangent:



    http://news.yahoo.com/paramount-post...065012238.html

    as far as I know, this movie has nothing to do with school shootings -- it's just your next Tom Cruise action pic. Is this being driven by the desire to look sensitive and get more press for a movie that hasn't been heavily promoted (I've heard little about it, aside from an occasional preview), or would people connect a Tom Cruise action pic involving shooting guns with a school shooting (entirely different context, as well as premiere location), or they figure that attendance would be down anyway, so this is their way of rescheduling, or... what?
    From the previews I've seen, I realized that I have read the book that the film is based on and the plot revolves around a man hidden in a parking garage who's shooting at people as they're coming out of a mall/office complex.
    Johari / Nohari

    “That we are capable only of being what we are remains our unforgivable sin.” ― Gene Wolfe

    reminder to self: "That YOU that you are so proud of is a story woven together by your interpreter module to account for as much of your behavior as it can incorporate, and it denies or rationalizes the rest." "Who's in Charge? Free Will and the Science of the Brain" by Michael S. Gazzaniga

  9. #159
    Mojibake sprinkles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    The USA is now part of the global village and all the world now sees what happens in the USA and feels what happens in the USA in real time.

    And it is plain to us that the USA is in denial about guns. And statistics backs this up.
    You still have about three million of them.

    Shoo!

    I also wouldn't tempt fate. It'd really suck for your position if you had the first massacre in 14 years happen tomorrow. It's not impossible and might just be overdue.

  10. #160
    Senior Member Little_Sticks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sprinkles View Post
    Less guns = less massacres only makes sense. The 'well DUH' type of sense. I won't be impressed until you have more guns and less massacres.

    We have 20 times more shootings per capita.
    14 times more people.
    But 90 times more guns.

    Frankly, I think being good at not shooting people when there's a lot of guns is better than simply having no guns to shoot people with.

    I'd say we're just better at guns, considering.

    I don't get why you can't understand a problem that people have is different than the tools and circumstance that carry it out. You may as well claim a lack of polar bear attacks.

    Edit:
    This is our perspective: "The house is burning! Put out the fire!"
    Victor's perspective: "The burning has a house in it! Un-house the fire!"
    You know, it bugs me a little that people want to take away all the guns, but leave the guns with the police and military. I mean I get that it would reduce violence in theory. But here me out.

    What Concerns Me
    Let's say we gave everyone a gun and taught everyone how to use it. Then when someone goes on a killing spree, you can just shoot them; simple. But then by giving everyone a gun and teaching them how to use it well, now you have increased the power of each individual to the point that a policeman has almost the same authority as an individual. And let's be realistic, laws are there to create order through control, not to do what's right; but I suppose some believe keeping order keeps peace and that is then right.
    I strongly disagree with that and here's why.
    Those who control aren't flexible to what people need and want; they don't listen because they already have decided what is best. When this creates order, it's often rationalized as peace, despite the fact that someone gets marginalized by it. Any marginalization can do, but for an example, consider how society allows rich people to use their wealth to create more wealth, whereas a poor person can not. Marginalizing people is what causes contention.

    So this idea that taking away guns will help reduce violence is probably true, but at what cost? If banning guns is used as a form of control to marginalize people, the cost is a loss of each individual's power and an increase in the power of the government to hurt the defenseless. The cost is having to raise your head up higher just so someone will hear you. And we can call this intuition, but I'm willing to bet that those societies with bans on guns that are highly controlling probably have high suicide rates. I know the Chinese government releases statistics that suggest low rates, however independent agencies have found high rates of suicide and it's no secret that japan has a pretty high rate of suicide. I still remember the girl on the side of the road who was ignored in China. But those are just two I looked at once in curiosity and don't know much about other places.

    All in all, my belief then is that banning guns will only work if it isn't used to control society. The US has the world's largest prison population and I seriously doubt Americans and their government who are highly competitive and controlling in their work and their politics can expect it not used as a means of control, although I would like to be wrong. In fact, controlling seems to be what people want when they suggest forcing those labeled mentally ill to take medications and suggest security measures as prevention against "sick" and "evil" people who are "born" that way, rather than believing that society can pollute hearts and minds and create "evil" people. And even if it could be argued that some people are innately evil, the potential for then mislabeling an innately good person as evil seems more horrific and evil than allowing an evil person to do some evil before getting caught.

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