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  1. #1
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    Exclamation Current elections in USA are pointless?

    I have started this thread on INTJ forum and I am interested what will I get here for posting this. I am not hostile I just want to know what people here think about it.

    I am not from US so I must ask you this. (I am from Europe)
    I observe geopolitical scene so I am not amateur in things like this.
    Also I want to know what American voters (others are welcome) think about this.By elections I mean current ones.

    I see that all around the world elections in USA are very popular topic and many Americans treat that elections like a salvation.
    My question is - why?

    I ask why, because elections will not change many government officials plus election will not change officials in banks and stock markets as well as people who run big business.


    1. So my point is if this administration is not able to find solution why next one could.
    To strengthen my point: people from large companies and stock markets always have some idea how to "repair" economy and what laws and regulations should be created to insure recovery.

    But if that mechanism failed in recent years I doubt that it is because current administration is ignoring advices. Of course they are ignoring some advices but they cant ignore many of them and hope to stay in position.

    If you elect another president it does not matter because again you have same people in same places whit same thinking and situation which is heritage from last administration (read: same trends).Only thing what changes are those few people who stand in front of the camera to announce something.


    2. On international level position of USA has weaken drastically.
    I think that many Americans still think that world looks more or less like 10 years ago but that is far from truth.
    Short overview

    South America is merging just to stop influence of USA in the region.

    Middle east hates USA (for obvious reasons)

    China and India want to become new promised lands.
    (read: economical domination)

    Russia not only that it succeed in recovery but it is for the first time has stabile economy. Which is then used to build next generation of military hardware .

    EU in recent years started to invest large amount of money in high technology and advanced education hoping to have a last laugh.


    My point is that if you want to have things as they were. USA will have to
    triumph against all opponents in their specialty.
    And that is very unlikely if we take current situation as starting point.

    So the only options for USA are to fall apart totally or to become average players whit well balanced strengths in this game .

    But there is no way others will allow USA to get advantage of 5 steps again.

    3. As student of geology I keep an eye on the oil industry and global warming which is in my field of interest for years but I will skip those arguments because I dont want to kill reader whit too much information.

    This elections are not useless when it comes to democracy and constitutional law but beside that it looks to me that this is precisely that case.

    Maybe my memory is wholly wrong but few years back democrats announce big change when they have won last elections for congress.
    But nothing happened.That is probably because USA is no longer in control of the world .

    I am asking all of this because everybody are so excited about this and I dont see why.

    So do I have a gap in my information bank or all of this is just a show whit principle: hope is always dying last.

  2. #2
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    Personally I am looking forward to the Democrat "good cop" economy. I hope we get it. But will all depend on how the media tells the people to vote I suppose.

  3. #3

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    Even if everything you said is true (and I'm not conceding that even a little bit), I think that the election of a president is an important statement about what kind of country you want to have and what kind of person you want to represent you.
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  4. #4
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    Ever heard of the spoils system? I'm not sure it happens over there, but when somebody gets elected president, the Cabinet gets completely overhauled. Just because the Bush administration is a catastrophic failure (98% of surveyed historians say that his presidency has been a failure, and his approval ratings have reached staggeringly low levels), doesn't mean we are doomed to his legacy. The congressional elections a few years ago were a success; they aren't able to do anything because of a Southern Republican president, but at least downright stupid legislation like the Federal Marriage Amendment isn't going through the system anymore like it was (a partisan amendment to the Constitution? Gimme a break). Another thing is that in the Senate, they still only barely have a majority. They only need 1 senator from their party to vote against a bill and they can't get it passed (even if they could, the president would just veto it). I can understand your anti-American sentiment, but we aren't doomed to it and it most certainly isn't set in stone.

  5. #5
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    I have started this thread on INTJ forum and I am interested what will I get here for posting this. I am not hostile I just want to know what people here think about it.

    I am not from US so I must ask you this. (I am from Europe)
    I observe geopolitical scene so I am not amateur in things like this.
    Also I want to know what American voters (others are welcome) think about this.By elections I mean current ones.

    I see that all around the world elections in USA are very popular topic and many Americans treat that elections like a salvation.
    My question is - why?

    I ask why, because elections will not change many government officials plus election will not change officials in banks and stock markets as well as people who run big business.


    1. So my point is if this administration is not able to find solution why next one could.
    To strengthen my point: people from large companies and stock markets always have some idea how to "repair" economy and what laws and regulations should be created to insure recovery.

    But if that mechanism failed in recent years I doubt that it is because current administration is ignoring advices. Of course they are ignoring some advices but they cant ignore many of them and hope to stay in position.

    If you elect another president it does not matter because again you have same people in same places whit same thinking and situation which is heritage from last administration (read: same trends).Only thing what changes are those few people who stand in front of the camera to announce something.


    2. On international level position of USA has weaken drastically.
    I think that many Americans still think that world looks more or less like 10 years ago but that is far from truth.
    Short overview

    South America is merging just to stop influence of USA in the region.

    Middle east hates USA (for obvious reasons)

    China and India want to become new promised lands.
    (read: economical domination)

    Russia not only that it succeed in recovery but it is for the first time has stabile economy. Which is then used to build next generation of military hardware .

    EU in recent years started to invest large amount of money in high technology and advanced education hoping to have a last laugh.


    My point is that if you want to have things as they were. USA will have to
    triumph against all opponents in their specialty.
    And that is very unlikely if we take current situation as starting point.

    So the only options for USA are to fall apart totally or to become average players whit well balanced strengths in this game .

    But there is no way others will allow USA to get advantage of 5 steps again.

    3. As student of geology I keep an eye on the oil industry and global warming which is in my field of interest for years but I will skip those arguments because I dont want to kill reader whit too much information.

    This elections are not useless when it comes to democracy and constitutional law but beside that it looks to me that this is precisely that case.

    Maybe my memory is wholly wrong but few years back democrats announce big change when they have won last elections for congress.
    But nothing happened.That is probably because USA is no longer in control of the world .

    I am asking all of this because everybody are so excited about this and I dont see why.

    So do I have a gap in my information bank or all of this is just a show whit principle: hope is always dying last.
    People in the United States get themselves worked up big-time over minute differences between political parties, and they tend to ignore major policy differences. They expect things to change fundamentally when a different party or president takes over, and they do not. Personally, I'd rather have the United States freer economically and socially, but with less influence over world events. Strength comes from within. We are supposed to be the example nation for the world, not the policeman.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  6. #6
    veteran attention whore Jeffster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badlands View Post
    Ever heard of the spoils system? I'm not sure it happens over there, but when somebody gets elected president, the Cabinet gets completely overhauled. Just because the Bush administration is a catastrophic failure (98% of surveyed historians say that his presidency has been a failure, and his approval ratings have reached staggeringly low levels), doesn't mean we are doomed to his legacy. The congressional elections a few years ago were a success; they aren't able to do anything because of a Southern Republican president, but at least downright stupid legislation like the Federal Marriage Amendment isn't going through the system anymore like it was (a partisan amendment to the Constitution? Gimme a break). Another thing is that in the Senate, they still only barely have a majority. They only need 1 senator from their party to vote against a bill and they can't get it passed (even if they could, the president would just veto it). I can understand your anti-American sentiment, but we aren't doomed to it and it most certainly isn't set in stone.

    Wow, you might be the anti-me!

    And I don't think the elections are pointless. It's about who you want to be the face of America for the next 4-8 years. If Obama's elected, I'll take comfort in the fact that Jesus must be coming back soon.

  7. #7
    Glowy Goopy Goodness The_Liquid_Laser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one
    But there is no way others will allow USA to get advantage of 5 steps again.
    I'm not really sure what five steps you are talking about. Could you be more specific in regards to this?

    In response to your post overall though, I'd say that this election should matter a whole lot more to Americans than it does to people in the rest of the world, because we are electing a national leader and not a world leader. The main thing the world should be concerned with is how the US will use its military. If McCain wins (which he won't) then we'll stay in Iraq and in general be more ready to use our military to solve our foreign problems. If Obama wins (which he will) then we'll pull out of Iraq and probably focus our military more toward Pakistan and Afghanistan. Also with other countries he'll try to rely more on diplomacy than McCain would.

    Beyond that I don't see what interest other countries would have on the US president except for maybe some economic treaties and tariffs.
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  8. #8
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    First I do not consider myself to be anti-American even it is popular to be one these days. Also I would not classify myself as undemocratic(just to be clear)
    But I understand why would you see me as anti-American, it is because I came out of nowhere and started full assault on the most basic parts of American society.Plus I have this nickneme:

    I simply say that I do not see how trends can be changed in situation like this.So I ask what did I miss in my analysis.

    1. I am glad that situation in senate is mentioned (I know for that).
    This situation exactly proves what I am saying.
    Example is that if democrats cant be united against something what is publicly considered as total catastrophe. That means that elections are for sure a little bit useless.

    2. Yes cabinet is wholly changed but how many thousands of people are not
    For example people who work in financial institutions and stock markets.
    And those thousands are those who make entire thing to work whit their knowledge.
    Also why big business did not create large pressure few years back to stop economic problems then.

    3. Also why recovery must wait for next administration why this one cant start it so the next could continue the recovery.
    After all this administration has reputation to be connected whit large firms and the last thing those firms need is system which is falling apart. So why dont they stop this trend.
    Is maybe because they are out of options?

  9. #9
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Liquid_Laser View Post
    I'm not really sure what five steps you are talking about. Could you be more specific in regards to this?

    In response to your post overall though, I'd say that this election should matter a whole lot more to Americans than it does to people in the rest of the world, because we are electing a national leader and not a world leader. The main thing the world should be concerned with is how the US will use its military. If McCain wins (which he won't) then we'll stay in Iraq and in general be more ready to use our military to solve our foreign problems. If Obama wins (which he will) then we'll pull out of Iraq and probably focus our military more toward Pakistan and Afghanistan. Also with other countries he'll try to rely more on diplomacy than McCain would.

    Beyond that I don't see what interest other countries would have on the US president except for maybe some economic treaties and tariffs.
    Then I must say to you that entire world is watching.Even the details who will win in some state - Obama of Hillary and whit what ratio. But this part of elections is over.
    They are watching because everybody will arange their policy toward the result of this elections.
    For many small countrys elections in US are more important then their local ones.

    And now I have asked entire world why they think like that because it looks to me that this elections will not solve any larger problem.

    5 steps is just a metaphor. But US in few moments was ahead of others for significant amount.

  10. #10
    Furry Critter with Claws Kiddo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffster View Post
    Wow, you might be the anti-me!

    And I don't think the elections are pointless. It's about who you want to be the face of America for the next 4-8 years. If Obama's elected, I'll take comfort in the fact that Jesus must be coming back soon.
    Are you for real?



    Anywho...

    Society is structured into a small ruling class and a large poor class. This has been made possible because the ruling class gained control over the media via ownership and control of the government through lobbying and endorsing politicians. The ruling class has hijacked democracy by utilizing ownership of the media to manufacture consent among public opinion by inspiring fear in the public for the purpose of promoting the interest of "national defense". They have done so in order to build a large military industrial complex which is now utilized to obtain foreign resources through brute force and to subjugate any domestic dissenters. That is the current state of the United States, and why the elections truly don't matter.
    Quote Originally Posted by Silently Honest View Post
    OMNi: Wisdom at the cost of Sanity.

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