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  1. #51
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    If you ask me a closed question as above, it seems to be peremptory - as though you want to shut the discussion down.
    How do you maintain that asking a question of meaning would somehow "shut the discussion down?" I don't know how that would follow logically, unless you think it's useless semantics. I don't know how that would follow logically, either, as it was a direct quotation of another person on your part.


    Why don't you tell me what it means to you?
    By your previous logic, wouldn't answering a question with a question "shut the discussion down?" At the very least, it's impolite. I am sure Antisocial one would ask Winston Churchill what he meant by that, but, sadly, it's no longer possible.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    How do you maintain that asking a question of meaning would somehow "shut the discussion down?" I don't know how that would follow logically, unless you think it's useless semantics. I don't know how that would follow logically, either, as it was a direct quotation of another person on your part.

    By your previous logic, wouldn't answering a question with a question "shut the discussion down?" At the very least, it's impolite. I am sure Antisocial one would ask Winston Churchill what he meant by that, but, sadly, it's no longer possible.
    As you know old Mercury, I failed Logic in the Trivium of Logic, Grammer and Rhetoric.

    So I am not the slightest bit logical in fact I spout mere rhetoric.

    But how interesting you feel the need to defend Anti-Social.

    And how curious you want me to be polite to somone known to be anti-social.

    I don't know what Winston would think about all this.

    Except perhaps that he was a superb rhetorician.

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    As you know old Mercury, I failed Logic in the Trivium of Logic, Grammer and Rhetoric.

    So I am not the slightest bit logical in fact I spout mere rhetoric.

    But how interesting you feel the need to defend Anti-Social.

    And how curious you want me to be polite to somone known to be anti-social.

    I don't know what Winston would think about all this.

    Except perhaps that he was a superb rhetorician.
    It wasn't a defense of Antisocial, so much as an expression of what I thought was unfair. I thought it was a legitimate question. Besides, aren't we supposed to be sharing our thoughts? You quoted a famous dead politician regarding democracy; what do YOU feel about the election? I am not a fan of major party politics in the United States. Neither Obama nor McCain appeal to my sensibilities.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  4. #54
    No moss growing on me Giggly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    I am asking all of this because everybody are so excited about this and I dont see why.

    You are right. Things wont be much different, however, lots of people hold out hope for change........and then complain later when it doesn't happen.

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    It wasn't a defense of Antisocial, so much as an expression of what I thought was unfair. I thought it was a legitimate question. Besides, aren't we supposed to be sharing our thoughts? You quoted a famous dead politician regarding democracy; what do YOU feel about the election? I am not a fan of major party politics in the United States. Neither Obama nor McCain appeal to my sensibilities.
    Yes, I prefer to hear ongoing thoughts rather than read quotes.

    But I prefer to not interfere in your elections. We are quite happy to work with whomsoever you elect.

    Our interests lie in free trade and good alliances, so I guess we like to encourage these policies in your government. And I must say we are quite happy with your government. We have three treaties with you - a military treaty, a land treaty and an economic treaty - and they are working quite well.

    Your Presidential elections are quite striking to us, we don't have anything similar. As our Prime Minister is not even mentioned in our Constitution. And our Prime Minister is not our Commander of our Armed Forces. And our Prime Minister is not even our Head of State. We prefer to circumscribe the powers of our Prime Minister. However our Prime Minister is not limited to two terms in office. But he or she can be easily removed if they lose the confidence of Parliament.

    We don't have a Bill of Rights in our Federal Parliament and we rely on Parliament to protect our rights. And so far they do a good job.

    It does seem to me, perhaps mistakenly, that your Presidential elections are a bit of a personality contest. And Obama does seem to have the more attractive personality, but I guess I would be more interested in policy than personality.

    And I guess it is telling that this site is devoted to personality. So I guess we might ask, what is the type of Obama or McCain?

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    So I am not the slightest bit logical in fact I spout mere rhetoric.
    No need to state your lack of logic, we're more than aware of that fact.

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    No need to state your lack of logic, we're more than aware of that fact.
    So you see, you are an important part of this conversation. You allow me to enjoy my rhetorical flourish, safe in the knowledge that you will bring me back with logic.

    So I begin our dance with a little rhetorical step and you reply with a logical step. I am point and you are counter-point - a little like a sung Mass where Mozart plays one melody off against another - sometimes we clash and sometimes we harmonize.

    But what is important is not your melody or mine, but the song. In fact the song is your melody and mine - until you and I disappear and only the song remains, drifting on the air like incense.

  8. #58
    Senior Member miked277's Avatar
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    partly it is about who you want to be the face of the US for the next few years. another part of the elections which definitely isn't pointless is the idea and execution of a peaceful transfer of power.

    the policies changes and results of electing a new president might be small or large. in the sense that you spoke about, a lot of things in the US won't change that much or at all. but say for example we collectively said, presidential elections are pointless since politicians are all the same and so we will stop holding them. what would we revert back to? presidential lineage? waging wars over who will next lead the country?

    or go to the other extreme where *everything* changes after the election of a new president. how much stability would we lose every 4 or 8 years? how many systems which rely on that stability would slow down tremendously or come to a grinding halt.

    of course all that is not to say we should ignore the malignant elements of society just to keep things on an even keel, no.

    another thing, and others have posted about it, is i think you're underestimating just how bad a president gwb was/is. no president could be called perfect as they all have made their own mistakes but my god, gw has given the presidency and america a terrible rep. so, the hope that we can do better for ourselves and the world has a lot of people excited about november.
    I'm feeling rough, I'm feeling raw, I'm in the prime of my life.

  9. #59

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    Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    "Democracy is the worst possible system, except for all the others".

    - Winston Churchill.
    To me this means that even though its not a great form of government, its probably better than any other type. The fact that the presidential election is basically a popularity contest attests to that. It seems impossible to me that the American people can really make an informed decision on who will really be the best president.

    Petro Euro Vs. Petro Dollar and US hegemony on world trade
    I read the article, its very interesting although it doesn't link any sources. But, it's in agreement with other news articles I have read on the internet. There are rumours that GWB will be starting an Iran invasion before the end of his term... we'll have to see how it all plays out.

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by miked277 View Post
    partly it is about who you want to be the face of the US for the next few years. another part of the elections which definitely isn't pointless is the idea and execution of a peaceful transfer of power.

    the policies changes and results of electing a new president might be small or large. in the sense that you spoke about, a lot of things in the US won't change that much or at all. but say for example we collectively said, presidential elections are pointless since politicians are all the same and so we will stop holding them. what would we revert back to? presidential lineage? waging wars over who will next lead the country?

    or go to the other extreme where *everything* changes after the election of a new president. how much stability would we lose every 4 or 8 years? how many systems which rely on that stability would slow down tremendously or come to a grinding halt.

    of course all that is not to say we should ignore the malignant elements of society just to keep things on an even keel, no.

    another thing, and others have posted about it, is i think you're underestimating just how bad a president gwb was/is. no president could be called perfect as they all have made their own mistakes but my god, gw has given the presidency and america a terrible rep. so, the hope that we can do better for ourselves and the world has a lot of people excited about november.
    We've had a couple of worse POTUSs than Dubya, but not many. Woodrow Wilson was like a racist, elitist version of Dubya, for instance.

    EDIT: On Fox News, Shepard "So not gay, for cereal" Smith was interviewing Chuck Schumer, and he suggested that Hillary Clinton might have some type of deal with Obama in which he would win the presidency and name her a Supreme Court Justice when the next slot is available. I hope this is just News Corp. BS, because the idea of that just upset my digestion. I had a delicious Italian dinner, too.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

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