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  1. #41
    Member TrueHeart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    6. I don't see scientific reason why global warming is not real
    There has been no net global increase in temperature in the past 10 years. So far, 2008 has been the coolest year of the last five.
    "There can be no understanding between the hands and the head unless the heart acts as mediator." (Metropolis, 1927)

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  2. #42
    Senior Member LostInNerSpace's Avatar
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    The first one is a blog posting. That does not count as a reliable source of information. The second is better, but you are cherry picking quotes. They also said this:

    "Global temperatures vary annually according to natural cycles. For example, they are driven by shifting ocean currents, and dips do not undermine the case that man-made greenhouse gas emissions are causing long-term global warming, climate scientists say"

  3. #43
    Member TrueHeart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LostInNerSpace View Post
    The first one is a blog posting. That does not count as a reliable source of information. The second is better, but you are cherry picking quotes. They also said this:

    "Global temperatures vary annually according to natural cycles. For example, they are driven by shifting ocean currents, and dips do not undermine the case that man-made greenhouse gas emissions are causing long-term global warming, climate scientists say"
    Wow, talk about a canned, unthinking response.

    If you did not already know that global average temperature has not increased in ten years then you are woefully underinformed because, perhaps, you discount lowly blogs as sources of information.

    And I did not "cherry pick" quotes because I did not quote at all: I stated a fact: the first half of 2008 has been the coolest in five years.
    "There can be no understanding between the hands and the head unless the heart acts as mediator." (Metropolis, 1927)

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  4. #44
    Glowy Goopy Goodness The_Liquid_Laser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    What is different is that sitation is far more serious then it was during last few election.
    Ok, I think I see what you are saying now. You are saying that things have gotten so bad in the US that no president could possibly fix any part of this horrible mess. I think I'll have to come to a different conclusion though.

    First many of the things on the list: weakened dollar, ignoring global warming, etc... are a result of the poor leadership of our current president. If a president can have such a substantial impact from poor decisions, then it reasonable to say that another president could have a positive impact of equal magnitude. Clearly it is impossible for things to be so bad that the president has no effect, since many of the president's actions are what lead us to this poor state to begin with.

    Secondly I read some comments from Warren Buffet the other day. His analysis is that the US economy will do poorly for the next year or so, but in five years we will be quite strong again. I'd trust Buffet's take on this more than anyone else since he knows what he's talking about and doesn't have any clear reason to lie (unlike politicians or The Fed).

    Thirdly, I've never found pessimistic speculation to very convincing. For example if you could make a detailed argument why there will never be a suitable replacement for oil, then I could be convinced there is really a serious problem. As it is, I see lots of potential replacements for oil, so I think while we have energy problems they are far from insurmountable. And in general the 10 problems listed seem small in comparison to nuclear holocaust, which is an issue past presidents had to deal with, and we still came out fine.

    So we can conclude that since our problems are not insurmountable, the elections do matter. Thank you for helping me realize how much US elections do matter after all.
    My wife and I made a game to teach kids about nutrition. Please try our game and vote for us to win. (Voting period: July 14 - August 14)
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  5. #45
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Liquid_Laser View Post
    Ok, I think I see what you are saying now. You are saying that things have gotten so bad in the US that no president could possibly fix any part of this horrible mess. I think I'll have to come to a different conclusion though.

    First many of the things on the list: weakened dollar, ignoring global warming, etc... are a result of the poor leadership of our current president. If a president can have such a substantial impact from poor decisions, then it reasonable to say that another president could have a positive impact of equal magnitude. Clearly it is impossible for things to be so bad that the president has no effect, since many of the president's actions are what lead us to this poor state to begin with.

    Secondly I read some comments from Warren Buffet the other day. His analysis is that the US economy will do poorly for the next year or so, but in five years we will be quite strong again. I'd trust Buffet's take on this more than anyone else since he knows what he's talking about and doesn't have any clear reason to lie (unlike politicians or The Fed).

    Thirdly, I've never found pessimistic speculation to very convincing. For example if you could make a detailed argument why there will never be a suitable replacement for oil, then I could be convinced there is really a serious problem. As it is, I see lots of potential replacements for oil, so I think while we have energy problems they are far from insurmountable. And in general the 10 problems listed seem small in comparison to nuclear holocaust, which is an issue past presidents had to deal with, and we still came out fine.

    So we can conclude that since our problems are not insurmountable, the elections do matter. Thank you for helping me realize how much US elections do matter after all.

    I am in agreement with Mr. Buffett. I foresee a nice rebound in the U.S. economy in 2009-10. 2008 and early-2009 will be rough, but a new President, combined with the usual business cycle changes should make the situation a lot better about two years from now.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  6. #46
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    Ok, I think I see what you are saying now. You are saying that things have gotten so bad in the US that no president could possibly fix any part of this horrible mess. I think I'll have to come to a different conclusion though.
    I started to think that we will never be on the same wavelenght.


    First many of the things on the list: weakened dollar, ignoring global warming, etc... are a result of the poor leadership of our current president. If a president can have such a substantial impact from poor decisions, then it reasonable to say that another president could have a positive impact of equal magnitude. Clearly it is impossible for things to be so bad that the president has no effect, since many of the president's actions are what lead us to this poor state to begin with.
    Be honest. What is easier, to throw rock down the hill or take it back at the top of the hill?


    Secondly I read some comments from Warren Buffet the other day. His analysis is that the US economy will do poorly for the next year or so, but in five years we will be quite strong again. I'd trust Buffet's take on this more than anyone else since he knows what he's talking about and doesn't have any clear reason to lie (unlike politicians or The Fed).

    Actually he has a reason. If Warren Buffet thinks that economy will be fine then many will make more risky investments what will benefit the economy.
    It is all about trust.


    Thirdly, I've never found pessimistic speculation to very convincing. For example if you could make a detailed argument why there will never be a suitable replacement for oil, then I could be convinced there is really a serious problem. As it is, I see lots of potential replacements for oil, so I think while we have energy problems they are far from insurmountable. And in general the 10 problems listed seem small in comparison to nuclear holocaust, which is an issue past presidents had to deal with, and we still came out fine.
    I've said last few elections and last 10 years with the reason.
    Oil can be replaced, but what did US done about that, pretty much nothing.
    So you will have to do before it is too late so you will have too do it fast and with lower quality.
    However I think that I know why nothing was done.


    So we can conclude that since our problems are not insurmountable, the elections do matter. Thank you for helping me realize how much US elections do matter after all.
    I understand your optimism because you have nothing to loose by begin optimistic.
    Since people starting to see what my arguments are it is time do bring in the big guns.
    From the start my point is that major problems of the US are not in the US but outside of US.

    The following article shorten my point into a simple argument.
    Also it is hostile towards the US and the point of that animosity here is to show what many people around the world think about the USA.


    Petro Euro Vs. Petro Dollar and US hegemony on world trade


    I will leave it at this because people first need to read this. Then we can debate it. I have choosen this article because it is written well and it has large number of facts.
    For those who want more just google : Petro Euro vs Petro Dollar 2008

  7. #47
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    "Democracy is the worst possible system, except for all the others".

    - Winston Churchill.

  8. #48
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    "Democracy is the worst possible system, except for all the others".

    - Winston Churchill.

    What do you mean by this?

  9. #49
    Sniffles
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    To borrow Lewis Black's summary of the '04 election: we basically have a choice between two big bowls of shit.

    Only real difference is one is vanilla flavored and the other is chocolate flavored. And for some people, being chocolate flavored actually has some significant meaning.

  10. #50
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    Default Peremptory

    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    What do you mean by this?
    Dear Anti-Social One,

    Why don't you tell me what it means to you?

    If you ask me a closed question as above, it seems to be peremptory - as though you want to shut the discussion down.

    But look, you are not peremptory you are anti-social.

    So why not say what you think, anti-social or not?

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