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  1. #21
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post


    Check this out instead.

    I'm actually more inclined towards institutional or cultural explanations than Marxism but this guy is persuasive. The cartoonists format is cool, there's some nice other talks on there too, one about empathy and human mind is interesting too.
    "its the excessive power of capital"

    "how is it that money got in the right place at the right time? well that takes financial innovations. financial innovations has the effect of empowering financiers"

    exactly.

    when i was watching this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRMWcsqnsmY few days ago i noticed something that makes a really big difference in the economy of finland vs some other countries like usa. some teens were asked what they want when they grow up and there was some discussion about the importance of money. well, the majority thought that money was not all that important, as long as you have enough to live comfortably and most of the people in finland do(even those who doesent have a job, as long as they dont have a car or other extra stuff like that, which you dont really need due to good public transportation, which btw makes less pollutions also that everyone owning a car), no matter what job they do. more important was job that you enjoy(regardless of how much it pays, since it pays enough in most cases) than the money that it offers.

    soooo, creating a society where money is more balanced amongst people(rich people arent millionaires and poor people arent really all that poor), while teaching kids to be healthy when it comes to greed seems to be the way to go. capitalism is pretty much the antithesis of this.

    i think you need to think outside of the box and look at whole alternative societies instead of looking at how to get the defected model to work slightly better.

    and i dont disagree that there isnt some trend of people being greedy in finland, but the major influence in that is the "american dream" that tv keeps pushing to everyone, influences of the internet and right wing politics who try to push the capitalist agenda.
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

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  2. #22
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    That's it? And here I thought you'd say something original.
    i dont care about originality, i care about the truth
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

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  3. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    Cut the shit, Lark. You're the one who bothered to quote my post to begin with.
    Go start another one of your 3,484 thought-provoking threads such as:

    How do you open a car door without hurting yourself?
    I'm just going to go and discuss things with the other posters here. Mind you dont hurt yourself trying to come up with something clever to say.

  4. #24
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    i care about the truth
    That's new. When did that happen?

  5. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by Speed Gavroche View Post
    It does not matter. Laissez-faire is what ought to be restored.
    About as good an idea as the divine right of kings, its been tested, found wanting in the balance.

  6. #26
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    That's new. When did that happen?
    i thought trolls were sleeping in some cave the whole winter like bears do . or is it not that cold yet in where you live?
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

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  7. #27
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    i thought trolls were sleeping in some cave the whole winter like bears do . or is it not that cold yet in where you live?
    Ah, yes. There it is. The ever-popular: You-don't-see-things-my-way-so-I'll-bring-up-the-word-troll, routine.

  8. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    "its the excessive power of capital"

    "how is it that money got in the right place at the right time? well that takes financial innovations. financial innovations has the effect of empowering financiers"

    exactly.

    when i was watching this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRMWcsqnsmY few days ago i noticed something that makes a really big difference in the economy of finland vs some other countries like usa. some teens were asked what they want when they grow up and there was some discussion about the importance of money. well, the majority thought that money was not all that important, as long as you have enough to live comfortably and most of the people in finland do(even those who doesent have a job, as long as they dont have a car or other extra stuff like that, which you dont really need due to good public transportation, which btw makes less pollutions also that everyone owning a car), no matter what job they do. more important was job that you enjoy(regardless of how much it pays, since it pays enough in most cases) than the money that it offers.

    soooo, creating a society where money is more balanced amongst people(rich people arent millionaires and poor people arent really all that poor), while teaching kids to be healthy when it comes to greed seems to be the way to go. capitalism is pretty much the antithesis of this.

    i think you need to think outside of the box and look at whole alternative societies instead of looking at how to get the defected model to work slightly better.

    and i dont disagree that there isnt some trend of people being greedy in finland, but the major influence in that is the "american dream" that tv keeps pushing to everyone, influences of the internet and right wing politics who try to push the capitalist agenda.
    What you got going there is a cultural criticism of capitalism, specifically the "anglo-saxon disease", the dude mentions it in the clip.

    Its fine as far as it goes I guess.

  9. #29
    Freaking Ratchet Rail Tracer's Avatar
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    Lending money that isn't there? That sounds about right.

    The Federal Reserve is carried by the bankers and experts because there is a theory that they know more about the usage of money than the people. Delegating such matters to the government seems "inconceivable" because of the saying "We are experts in money while you aren't, let us handle it" they have delegated financial matters to those "experts" to inflate the economy or deflate the economy at will. Metaphorically (and conspiratorially) speaking, you can call them a shadow government. In times of economic stress, the Federal Reserve prints money to try to offset the "imbalance" in the system. But in times of good, they deflate the system by taking in the money. It is why you will always have experts here or there who propose ideas. No matter which president or congress you have, they don't directly control the federal reserve, a select group of people from these banks do. They can backhandedly make a president look bad by inflating the economy or deflating it. And the majority of the people wouldn't even know it (they'll just blame it on the sitting president.)

    Which brings us back to the scenario.

    Quote Originally Posted by Speed Gavroche View Post
    It does not matter. Laissez-faire is what ought to be restored.
    No, that is the problem. I would even say that the Federal Reserve would be laissez-faire enough because THEY ARE the ones controlling the flow of money, not congress, not the president, not WE the people. It is WE the banks. The government ain't controlling the Federal Reserve directly. The Federal Reserve is an oligarchy[dramatically speaking.]

    The other extreme is to make it so that the people have a say whether paper money can flow in or flow out or not and if banks can get money or not, or essentially, make it so that the people can control the Federal Reserve to some extent.

    Which way do I trust more? Making the Federal Reserve part of the people. It sounds counter-intuitive (because the people aren't that great with money matters,) but it is the fastest way in controlling the fed and taking it away from a few crummy hands. But if we were to do that, we might not even need the Fed to begin with.

  10. #30
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    What you got going there is a cultural criticism of capitalism, specifically the "anglo-saxon disease", the dude mentions it in the clip.

    Its fine as far as it goes I guess.
    Yes. Capitalism imo should be treated also as a cultural phenomena, because it it largely about that. The video @op doesent talk of capitalism, it talks about the "american dream" which is a cultural thing and because i see the connection between this cultural thing and capitalism, i also brought up the capitalism, since its fueled by the american dream and is what causes the imbalance in distribution of money/goods, which is the source of this "hell on earth" i was talking about, since it rips off the majority in favor of minority. Another important note that i forgot to mention(as i saw it as obvious, like this culture thing) is the fact that im not against loaning money, as long as its not done in terms of capitalism, but in terms of common good, thats why i think it should be regulated by the government in the interest of the people, not in the interest of profits supporting the interests of the few and in expence of majority(as capitalism does).
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

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