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View Poll Results: Gay Marriage - Yes or no?

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  • Yes

    67 93.06%
  • No

    7 9.72%
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  1. #71
    null Jonny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AphroditeGoneAwry View Post
    How do you know they are born that way?
    Even if one cannot come to the conclusion that some people are born gay, it seems pretty clear that a percentage of the population, through genetics and very early environmental factors, are emotionally and sexually attracted to members of the same sex in the same way as heterosexuals are emotionally and sexually attracted to members of the opposite sex. Isn't that enough?
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  2. #72
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    Scientific evidence, logic, and personal experience. You can google the former.

    Though it does not really make any difference whether it is nature or nurture that determines one's sexual orientation, because the fact remains that one cannot change it at will.
    I am not so sure that is true. I think perhaps one clings to her homosexuality not unlike a heterosexual clings to his.

    When does a person begin to sexually question their orientation? Puberty? A lot can happen between birth and puberty to have an influence.
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  3. #73
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnyboy View Post
    Even if one cannot come to the conclusion that some people are born gay, it seems pretty clear that a percentage of the population, through genetics and very early environmental factors, are emotionally and sexually attracted to members of the same sex in the same way as heterosexuals are emotionally and sexually attracted to members of the opposite sex. Isn't that enough?

    I'll raise you one higher and say 10% isn't the accurate reflection of who can be gay. I think many more can be gay than that. It is the clinging to gayness or orientation that I do not think is a true reflection of the human being, though those abilities are likely just now being catalyzed by changing culture.

    And, yes, it does matter. To me. It changes the whole shebang.
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  4. #74
    null Jonny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AphroditeGoneAwry View Post
    I'll raise you one higher and say 10% isn't the accurate reflection of who can be gay. I think many more can be gay than that. It is the clinging to gayness or orientation that I do not think is a true reflection of the human being, though those abilities are likely just now being catalyzed by changing culture.

    And, yes, it does matter. To me. It changes the whole shebang.
    I made no mention of 10%. So, to get this straight, it is your contention that everyone (or almost everyone) has the potential to have homosexual and heterosexual feelings, but that it is through cultural conditioning that we have some people who identify as straight and some who identify as gay?

    Also, in what sense does it change the whole shebang? Do you believe that we shouldn't extend the same privileges heterosexual couples enjoy to homosexual couples?
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  5. #75
    The Unwieldy Clawed One Falcarius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    Then I am happy to inform you that homosexuality is normal. Homosexual behavior has been observed in over a thousand different species of animals, and people are, in fact, born that way.
    By ones logic, that is like Falcarius arguing thievery is normal. Since it is the most common criminal activity humans undertake, not to mention sperm whales swipe fish from commercial fishermen, for what it is worth every animal in known to man has undertook misappropriation for thousands of years. Obviously theft is perfectly normal.
    Quote Originally Posted by Thalassa View Post
    Oh our 3rd person reference to ourselves denotes nothing more than we realize we are epic characters on the forum.

    Narcissism, plain and simple.

  6. #76
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnyboy View Post
    I made no mention of 10%. So, to get this straight, it is your contention that everyone (or almost everyone) has the potential to have homosexual and heterosexual feelings, but that it is through cultural conditioning that we have some people who identify as straight and some who identify as gay?
    Essentially, yes.

    Also, in what sense does it change the whole shebang? Do you believe that we shouldn't extent the same privileges heterosexual couples enjoy to homosexual couples?
    No, no. I don't mean it that way. The why and wherefore of something changes the whole meaning and how we understand said thing. That is all I meant. Practically, there should be no difference in how groups are treated.
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  7. #77
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AphroditeGoneAwry View Post
    I think perhaps one clings to her homosexuality not unlike a heterosexual clings to his.
    That is quite true: both do it because they have no control over it.

    Quote Originally Posted by AphroditeGoneAwry View Post
    When does a person begin to sexually question their orientation? Puberty? A lot can happen between birth and puberty to have an influence.
    What does it matter whether it is nature or nurture?

  8. #78
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    No! -runs for the exit-


  9. #79
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Falcarius View Post
    By ones logic, that is like Falcarius arguing thievery is normal. Since it is the most common criminal activity humans undertake, not to mention sperm whales swipe fish from commercial fishermen, for what it is worth every animal in known to man has undertook misappropriation for thousands of years. Obviously theft is perfectly normal.
    Theft is, in any case, natural. If it is not, how can Falcarius tolerate it that computers are legal? They are certainly not natural-normal!

    Unless you want to change the premise of your initial argument, I think you have to surrender now.

  10. #80
    null Jonny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AphroditeGoneAwry View Post
    Essentially, yes.



    No, no. I don't mean it that way. The why and wherefore of something changes the whole meaning and how we understand said thing. That is all I meant. Practically, there should be no difference in how groups are treated.
    To the extent that what you say is true, do you believe it serves the interests of greater equality to have a public discourse about how we have these fluid sexual preferences? I see the acceptance of the "fact" that homosexuality is not a choice to be a necessary step toward an honest discussion about human sexuality. If we begin discussing the idea that sexually is partly a choice, before homosexuality has been freed of negative societal implications, some people might use certain things out of context to fuel the hatred and disinformation that is prevalent in the anti-gay movement.
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