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View Poll Results: Gay Marriage - Yes or no?

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  • Yes

    67 93.06%
  • No

    7 9.72%
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  1. #221
    Senior Member JivinJeffJones's Avatar
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    I voted yes because I believe gay couples should enjoy the same legal rights as others. The caveat I place on that is that religious bodies should not be legally required to conduct said marriages if it contradicts their beliefs. I doubt most gay couples would want a religious ceremony, but I also don't doubt that somewhere out there is someone looking to turn the worm on the church after centuries of persecution -- maybe getting a big fat paycheck in the process.

  2. #222
    mrs disregard's Avatar
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    I think religion exists mainly to keep up loling at people and their sad desire to control others (and believe in fairy tales).

  3. #223
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JivinJeffJones View Post
    I voted yes because I believe gay couples should enjoy the same legal rights as others. The caveat I place on that is that religious bodies should not be legally required to conduct said marriages if it contradicts their beliefs. I doubt most gay couples would want a religious ceremony, but I also don't doubt that somewhere out there is someone looking to turn the worm on the church after centuries of persecution -- maybe getting a big fat paycheck in the process.
    Churches have this coming to them, but all in good time, and by the right means.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  4. #224
    Gone Aesthete's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randomnity View Post
    Ok, so you think we should assign a numerical value to each positive trait and each negative trait as well as predicted parenting ability, and encourage people with the highest overall numerical value (let's say above a certain threshold) to reproduce?
    No, no; I used numbers to get a point across regarding who it would be best to have children. I meant that if an extremely noble fellow doesn't have children because a slightly less noble fellow "gets the girl" - this can also be applied with one girl "getting the guy" - then it's not a big problem, but if a highly ignoble man "gets the girl" and the noble man doesn't then it might become a problem (if on a large scale, not isolated scenarios).

    What about direct interactions between traits? Would you ignore those or factor them in? Let's say someone with awesome artistic traits but poor vision, or someone with very high intelligence but poor motivation, so they accomplish little in their lifetime? What about someone with good genes for musical ability, but who will probably not have the resources (financial or otherwise) to train their kids in music from a young age?
    I find it terrible that some of our greatest humans (like Beethoven) haven't produced children because of such factors; overall, they ought to be ignored.

    You haven't answered who you think should be in charge of determining which traits are "superior". You say that "superior" to you means someone of moderate temperament, who is self-controlled and avoids extremes ("moderate"/"extreme" as defined subjectively by you, or some other way?). But nobody will let you single-handedly decide a eugenics program for a country, so who will? Will it be a committee of elected officials? Government-appointed or popular vote? Doctors, or geneticists, or medical researchers? Ethicists, sociologists, child psychologists? How will they be trained to recognize the "best" traits? How much taxpayer funding do you think this project is worth, and what projects should be cut from the budget to make room for this?
    Well, it seems you've misunderstood what I meant - it's my fault as I wasn't extremely clear. The superior man is basically the one who is, at the same time, a peaceful ascetic and a warrior - the two aren't contradictory. Basically, he has no wish to dominate or any wish for power, except as a means to complete his goals. He alone is a master of himself, not his "human needs", nor the wishes of others (he might, listen to what others want him to do, but he will not act against his own character to satisfy others). As well, he will not be vain or superficial to impress; all in all, he will be fairly simple - not intellectually nor anything of the sort, but in his life style.

    Finally, as he is himself free, he will want to free others. He will hate anything (or anybody) that enslaves anything (or anybody) else; this doesn't only extend to the rest of humanity, but beyond, to everything in existence, from animals to plants. As Schopenhauer put it: "The assumption that animals are without rights and the illusion that our treatment of them has no moral significance is a positively outrageous example of Western crudity and barbarity. Universal compassion is the only guarantee of morality." So, if he sees - as an example - Steven beating on Joe, he won't ignore it, but try to get Steven to stop by words; if that doesn't work, he might have to do it physically; this is punishment as it has the future of Steven's actions in mind, not mere revenge, which would just consider how to get back at Steven. He will also have nothing to do with people who encourage the degradation that is so clear around us, and encourage others to do likewise.

    Finally, this isn't a project. By encouraging this personality in the media and such, people will begin to see it more of an ideal, and thus try to become more like this themselves. As well, the average person will begin to think better of the noble person than of the big chunks of meat and stupid prostitutes they see everywhere. So, by this type of person being promoted, we won't just have a better humanity in the future (progress is not one of my concerns, but transcendence), but also a better world for any living thing.

    These are, of course, not traits that will always be passed down from parent to child. What I'm saying - on the most simple level - is that if only such people would have children, they would raise their children in the most appropriate fashion, leading to better human generations.
    Great men are like eagles, and build their nest on some lofty solitude.

    Schopenhauer

  5. #225
    Gone Aesthete's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    How is it a problem for me? I have no problem with it. It has no affect on me whatsoever...

    Are you suggesting gay people/people who wear nothing but underpants in public are "the worst of humanity"?
    I would venture you are the one with the problem.
    No, I meant your apathy - or so it seems - towards the future of humanity by letting just anybody do as they please is a problem.

    How about a disciple of Hitler? Does that work better for you?
    Unfortunately, your calls for a eugenics revival are likely to fall on deaf ears. At least until people manage to forget about the final solution.
    For a wish to not continue on the topic, I'll inform you that I reach my own conclusions and I don't call myself a disciple of anybody.

    You're the one espousing survival of the fittest... Those dudes look pretty fit to me.
    No, the survival of the fittest is an unfortunate reality: it's terrible that it's not the best people who are more likely to survive in a society, but just those who fit in better into the society, with its social norms (or lack of social norms); with this natural law, all that is terrible and base will continue in its petty existence as long as it can fit into the society somehow. However, there's no point in denying the survival of the fittest, and trying to make our way around it: it has to be accepted and dealt with. By making what is best be the ideal of a society, we make the society better, thus making it more likely for the valiant people to continue existing and the scoundrels and rascals will die off in a few generations.

    As well, survival of the fittest doesn't meant the survival of the most physically fit.
    Great men are like eagles, and build their nest on some lofty solitude.

    Schopenhauer

  6. #226
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aesthete View Post
    No, I meant your apathy - or so it seems - towards the future of humanity by letting just anybody do as they please is a problem.
    I hope you aren't a gun owner.

  7. #227
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    it's always when one person feels that they have the right to decide for the many who is desirable and who isn't that bad things seem to happen... what makes this person have the right to decide?

    THAT is an unwarranted sense of egomania in a way, dear people
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  8. #228
    Gone Aesthete's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    it's always when one person feels that they have the right to decide for the many who is desirable and who isn't that bad things seem to happen... what makes this person have the right to decide?

    THAT is an unwarranted sense of egomania in a way, dear people
    However, by telling somebody they shouldn't do that, you are doing the exact same thing.

    In any case, I'm out of this thread. Goodbye everybody!
    Great men are like eagles, and build their nest on some lofty solitude.

    Schopenhauer

  9. #229
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Working in classical music, many of the gay couples I know represent what anyone would consider as admirable. In classical music some are conservative in lifestyle and religious, so stereotypes are particularly difficult to apply to homosexuality. People I know who are leaders in their field, highly intelligent and gifted, and particularly compassionate, and monogamously in love with their partners for many years. It is only reasonable to show respect for these individuals' choice of whom to love, and to give them the same rights of having that choice acknowledged by society.

    I think that gay pride parades serves a purpose in society to take stereotypes, and sexual fears, and to challenge people's perceptions. I suspect if the conservative strains in society were not so easily worked up and abhorring the sexuality of gays, that there wouldn't be as much motivation to shock people in pride parades. People who are elitist and easily offended are bound to be teased.

    Imagine a role reversal in which the norm is homosexuality, and anyone who fell in love with the opposite sex was considered perverted and their love would destroy society if made legitimate. Imagine the hate crimes, judgment from family, friends and random people online, disapproving looks. If you knew how easily offended everyone was by your sexuality, and there was going to be a hetero-pride parade, wouldn't it be a a little bit tempting to tease the condescending, uptight, easily offended folk by dancing in your undies?
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

  10. #230
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aesthete View Post
    However, by telling somebody they shouldn't do that, you are doing the exact same thing.

    In any case, I'm out of this thread. Goodbye everybody!
    not exactly... impressive powers of discernment there

    there's a difference between affecting the powers of many and the power of one...
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

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