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View Poll Results: Gay Marriage - Yes or no?

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  • Yes

    67 93.06%
  • No

    7 9.72%
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  1. #201
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    You spellcasters, with your fancy wands, and expensive ingredients, and yer long white beards and dusty scrolls.. None privileges for ya'll!
    Beards? BEARDS!!! Try again. My wizards look more like this:



    Or even this:


    (Which is why Rogues tend not to recognize them until it is too late.)
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  2. #202
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Falcarius View Post
    in doing so he would have to acknowledge homosexuality as being normal, which he certainly does not believe in.
    That is not a necessary precondition for supporting gay marriage (in principle); you simply have to believe some combination of the following:

    1.) Homosexuality is, generally speaking, not a choice.

    2.) Homosexuality cannot, generally speaking, be 'cured'.

    3.) Homosexuals have a greater chance of personal happiness by pursuing romantic relationships with the same sex.

    4.) Society is better off if the (non-celibate) homosexual population is integrated into it, rather than remaining outside of it.

    5.) As a general rule, the legal capacity to pursue happiness so long as it does not directly infringe upon the liberty of others is paramount for the achievement of utilitarian ends, and all are ultimately better off under this principle.

    6.) Any abrogation of the third and fifth principles requires a great amount of utilitarian justification (which would, of course, implicitly cancel out the fourth principle).

    For me, the third, fifth, and sixth principle are the most important, though I agree with all of them.

  3. #203
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    That is not a necessary precondition for supporting gay marriage (in principle); you simply have to believe some combination of the following:

    1.) Homosexuality is, generally speaking, not a choice.

    2.) Homosexuality cannot, generally speaking, be 'cured'.

    3.) Homosexuals have a greater chance of personal happiness by pursuing romantic relationships with the same sex.

    4.) Society is better off if the (non-celibate) homosexual population is integrated into it, rather than remaining outside of it.

    5.) As a general rule, the legal capacity to pursue happiness so long as it does not directly infringe upon the liberty of others is paramount for the achievement of utilitarian ends, and all are ultimately better off under this principle.

    6.) Any abrogation of the third and fifth principles requires a great amount of utilitarian justification (which would, of course, implicitly cancel out the fourth principle).

    For me, the third, fifth, and sixth principle are the most important, though I agree with all of them.
    This is well-reasoned.

    Homosexuality is as "normal" as any other feature possessed by a minority of the population - e.g. left-handedness, or blue eyes.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  4. #204
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    This is well-reasoned.
    I concur.

    @lowtech redneck: You described the interconnection of the logic well and succinctly.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  5. #205
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    Beards? BEARDS!!! Try again. My wizards look more like this:

    Beards can look like that...

    Quote Originally Posted by Aesthete View Post
    It seems that plenty of people who have been acknowledged as geniuses agree with me; here's from Schopenhauer:

    "With our knowledge of the complete unalterability both of character and of mental faculties, we are led to the view that a real and thorough improvement of the human race might be reached not so much from outside as from within, not so much by theory and instruction as rather by the path of generation. Plato had something of the kind in mind when, in the fifth book of his Republic, he explained his plan for increasing and improving his warrior caste. If we could castrate all scoundrels and stick all stupid geese in a convent, and give men of noble character a whole harem, and procure men, and indeed thorough men, for all girls of intellect and understanding, then a generation would soon arise which would produce a better age than that of Pericles."
    Interesting choice. Wouldn't supporting gay rights / marriage bring your dream of a harem-filled Utopia that little bit closer?

    Of course Nietzche liked this too. So did the Nazis. I guess you can't really weigh the merit of an idea based on whom you share it with...

    If I had it my way, neither of these two would raise any children:

    It would be scandalous if the genes for those washboard abs were lost to humanity!
    Quote Originally Posted by sprinkles View Post
    Yeah, I think so. I'm pretty sure that anything else is actually reducible to one of those two common denominators.
    I'm gonna plump for "custom". Less emotive.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  6. #206
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    3.) Homosexuals have a greater chance of personal happiness by pursuing romantic relationships with the same sex.
    Nah. "Let them be miserable like everyone else" is a much more accurate sentiment.

  7. #207
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aesthete View Post
    If I had it my way, neither of these two would raise any children:

    Do you know them, personally?

  8. #208
    Gone Aesthete's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    Beards can look like that...

    Interesting choice. Wouldn't supporting gay rights / marriage bring your dream of a harem-filled Utopia that little bit closer?

    Of course Nietzche liked this too. So did the Nazis. I guess you can't really weigh the merit of an idea based on whom you share it with...
    "My harem-filled Utopia?" You're a funny person. Fine, if you want to let all that's worst of humanity continue reproducing, that's your problem.

    I'm not a Nietzschean in terms of morality or anything; there are certain points I agree on, but I wouldn't call myself a disciple of Nietzsche.

    It would be scandalous if the genes for those washboard abs were lost to humanity!
    Well, if a person's body is all that is relevant - or the primary thing of relevance - to you when "falling in love", then there's not much I can argue with you about.
    Great men are like eagles, and build their nest on some lofty solitude.

    Schopenhauer

  9. #209
    Gone Aesthete's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    Do you know them, personally?
    No.
    Great men are like eagles, and build their nest on some lofty solitude.

    Schopenhauer

  10. #210
    insert random title here Randomnity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aesthete View Post
    Fine, if you want to let all that's worst of humanity continue reproducing, that's your problem.
    Interesting proposal.

    Who defines what "the worst of humanity" is, and where the cutoff should be for reproduction permission?
    How will this be enforced and what will be the punishment for those who break the law?
    -end of thread-

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