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  1. #1
    Senior Member bedeviled1's Avatar
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    Default MEDICARE AND SOCIALISM

    It seems obvious to me that the good old USA is in a transition period. The American dream is sadly becoming less of a reality being replaced with rewards for being lazy in exchange for less and less liberty (freedom) which some would unwittingly exchange for support for their beliefs.
    The proposal to raise the age requirement for Medicare from 65 to 67 is a continuation of the undermining of the work ethic in this country. If this doesn't affect you or any of your family or friends it might be easy to disregard. But, when a people starts neglecting its responsibilities to people that have contributed significantly to society they are definately undermining something none of us can afford to lose.
    "May you live all the days of your life"

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    So if the age was not raised as one way of alleviating cost, how would you propose to cover the costs?

    I mean, it's fine to take this stance. It's just a matter of paying for it. And I think Social Security and Medicare and whatever else made a lot of sense when created, but it didn't really take into account the increasing burden of the programs 40-50 years later, as well as the hugely increased longevity.

    Life expectancy for United States citizens was 62.9 years in 1940.
    In 1950, it was 68.2 years.
    In 1975, it was 72.6 years.
    In 1990, it was 75.4 years.
    And in 2010, it was 78.4 years.
    http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0005148.html

    This is an additional 15-16 years per person of increased retirement and medical aid costs, which can be exorbitant with the kind of care we've developed. People who might have succumbed to illnesses and infirmity related to natural aging can now be kept alive on more expensive medicine and treatments. It has to be paid for somehow.

    There are also more older people.
    In 1950, the age 60+ group was 18,329,012.
    In 1990, it was 41,857,998.
    In 2010, it was 56,986,401.
    http://www.aoa.gov/aoaroot/aging_sta...rowth.aspx#age

    We'd have to compare that with the amount of population growth among workers providing income, and whether income has proportionally increased or decreased compared to cost of living increases, etc., but I guess you get my point.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    So if the age was not raised as one way....
    Words out of my mouth.

    I think the age one can get benefits should be tied to the current life expectancy, so as to avoid problems like the ones we currently face.

  4. #4
    Senior Member bedeviled1's Avatar
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    It would be interesting to see the population growth in general compared to that among workers. I understand that this is a bigger dollar issue than it was 50 years ago but just because people are living longer does not mean they are capable of holding down. A steady job. I work beside people who are reaching retirement age and have worked for 50 years. They're wore out. I just feel that practically everyone in politics today are so busy that they have lost touch with the working men and women of this country. Its impossible tto please everyone.
    I really don't have an idea how to fund social security and medicare but it looks to me like they are " riding a good horse to death".

    I think welfare should be self funded.
    "May you live all the days of your life"

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    Quote Originally Posted by bedeviled1 View Post
    It would be interesting to see the population growth in general compared to that among workers. I understand that this is a bigger dollar issue than it was 50 years ago but just because people are living longer does not mean they are capable of holding down. A steady job.
    Exactly. They aren't working any later in life, yet are expecting more and more benefits. Where is the money to come from? We have to get it from somewhere, so something needs to be cut.

    (And don't think I don't empathize or it's not my problem, as I'm halfway through my normal "work years" myself and have to think about retirement; and both of my parents are retired and dealing with these issues right this very moment.)

    I work beside people who are reaching retirement age and have worked for 50 years. They're wore out. I just feel that practically everyone in politics today are so busy that they have lost touch with the working men and women of this country. Its impossible tto please everyone. I really don't have an idea how to fund social security and medicare but it looks to me like they are " riding a good horse to death". I think welfare should be self funded.
    Do you mean like private investing, such as what the Republicans have presented in the past, or something different?
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  6. #6
    Senior Member bedeviled1's Avatar
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    I really am not qualified to reason how these things should be funded there just seems to be a lot of questions and if you take a slice across the board of people retired the majority is struggling to live. If you look at what was the say, bottom 90 percent I doubt it would be a pretty picture. We, the greatest nation on earth. Something is out of whack.
    My mother is a retired school teacher and was always the first to school and the last to leave and genuinely saved a lot of kids. My dad was a heavy equipment operator that worked , hard to within a few years of his death. My mother can barely make ends meet.
    I thought that your retirement was based on your income. Surely the social security system was set up to fund itself. If so what happened?was monies used somewhere else?
    I have paid social security for over thirty years but am only 54 . Why isn't anyone talking about welfare and all the entitlement programs or all the billions of dollars of foreign aid so forth and so on.
    "May you live all the days of your life"

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    Quote Originally Posted by bedeviled1 View Post
    It seems obvious to me that the good old USA is in a transition period. The American dream is sadly becoming less of a reality being replaced with rewards for being lazy in exchange for less and less liberty (freedom) which some would unwittingly exchange for support for their beliefs.
    The proposal to raise the age requirement for Medicare from 65 to 67 is a continuation of the undermining of the work ethic in this country. If this doesn't affect you or any of your family or friends it might be easy to disregard. But, when a people starts neglecting its responsibilities to people that have contributed significantly to society they are definately undermining something none of us can afford to lose.
    I'm not from the USA so forgive me the following.

    Did I misunderstand...this seems to imply that people are forced to pay for a program and then can't access it until they retire.

    That can't be true, surely...

  8. #8
    Senior Member bedeviled1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Il Morto Che Parla View Post
    I'm not from the USA so forgive me the following.

    Did I misunderstand...this seems to imply that people are forced to pay for a program and then can't access it until they retire.

    That can't be true, surely...
    There are certain ways you can opt out of the Social Security Program but then you forfeit all benefits. But basically I suppose that's true. If they keep raising the eligibility age there will definately be a lot of money saved and a lot of elderly suffer even more.
    "May you live all the days of your life"

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    Quote Originally Posted by bedeviled1 View Post
    I really am not qualified to reason how these things should be funded there just seems to be a lot of questions and if you take a slice across the board of people retired the majority is struggling to live. If you look at what was the say, bottom 90 percent I doubt it would be a pretty picture. We, the greatest nation on earth. Something is out of whack.
    My mother is a retired school teacher and was always the first to school and the last to leave and genuinely saved a lot of kids. My dad was a heavy equipment operator that worked , hard to within a few years of his death. My mother can barely make ends meet.
    I thought that your retirement was based on your income. Surely the social security system was set up to fund itself. If so what happened?was monies used somewhere else?
    My understanding is that SS isn't touched. it's all mandated money that you pay into the system during your work years and is then paid out when you retire.

    One problem is that they were taking the money invested by the younger workers to pay for the older workers at the time. That has always been the basis for the system.

    So if you read my posts above, you'll see that the money now being taken out by our parents is far more money than what they paid into the system. That is the main problem -- they are surviving much longer (so they drain Social Security for additional years beyond their investment), and then their health issues over all those years means they are taking far more out of Medicaid than invested... although I'm not sure how Medicaid works, since I think it's partly run on the state level at least as well.

    In any case, you and I have been paying for our parents' and grandparents' retirements, and since they are burning up our money, we won't have much for ourselves when we retire. The money will all have been spent on people living far longer than what they put into the system. That is the problem. I don't want to be sloppy and compare it to a Ponzi scheme but it can sound like it (and maybe someone with better understanding can explain how it is or isn't -- maybe it's more of a "bubble").

    I have paid social security for over thirty years but am only 54 . Why isn't anyone talking about welfare and all the entitlement programs or all the billions of dollars of foreign aid so forth and so on.
    Are you saying that those expenditures have no value in themselves? People might say the same about Social Security.

    There are always more worthy causes in the world than there are resources to provide. So we end up arguing about how to prioritize them.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  10. #10
    Senior Member bedeviled1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    My understanding is that SS isn't touched. it's all mandated money that you pay into the system during your work years and is then paid out when you retire.

    One problem is that they were taking the money invested by the younger workers to pay for the older workers at the time. That has always been the basis for the system.

    So if you read my posts above, you'll see that the money now being taken out by our parents is far more money than what they paid into the system. That is the main problem -- they are surviving much longer (so they drain Social Security for additional years beyond their investment), and then their health issues over all those years means they are taking far more out of Medicaid than invested... although I'm not sure how Medicaid works, since I think it's partly run on the state level at least as well.

    In any case, you and I have been paying for our parents' and grandparents' retirements, and since they are burning up our money, we won't have much when we retire. That is the problem.



    Are you saying that those expenditures have no value in themselves? People might say the same about Social Security.

    There are always more worthy causes in the world than there are resources to provide. So we end up arguing about how to prioritize them.
    Priority, I guess that's the bottom line. I know my parents worked harder than I ever will. There's no way I would have had them work any longer. Are they getting more than they deserve or worked for? No way. Am I paying for their retirement? If so I vote to give them and your parents and a whole lot more a raise.
    "May you live all the days of your life"

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