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  1. #61
    Senior Member bedeviled1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    Clinton era tax rates for everyone making over $250K/year. Pre-Clinton capital gains tax rates.
    Minimum effective tax rate of 15% on business profits? I don't know enough about corporate taxes, but I know GE and the like shouldn't have a net negative tax liability.

    HEAR HEAR!
    "May you live all the days of your life"

  2. #62
    Senior Member bedeviled1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Dont understand your point. Still waiting to see what the American dream is.
    Opportunity...
    "May you live all the days of your life"

  3. #63
    Senior Member bedeviled1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halla74 View Post
    Everything, everywhere is always in a transitionary period, because the only constant is change.
    YOUR FAIL = 1



    The title of this thread is "MEDICARE and SOCIALISM" yet above you are stating your contempt for lazy people = YOU ARE CONFUSED and IGNORANT.
    MEDICARE is publicly FUNDED (I capitalized "funded" for a reason, which we'll get back to in a subsequent lesson, be patient please) health insurance for SENIOR CITIZENS.
    It's obvious you don't know what Medicare is, so let's educate you now:

    "Medicare is the federal health insurance program for people who are 65 or older, certain younger people with disabilities, and people with End-Stage Renal Disease (permanent kidney failure requiring dialysis or a transplant, sometimes called ESRD)."

    FROM: http://www.medicare.gov/sign-up-chan...-medicare.html

    So, are the ELDERLY and people with DISABILITIES "lazy" in your opinion?
    If so then your views are shallow and conceited.

    In order for you to be able to make less foolish posts in the future, I'll now inform you about a different public health care program: MEDICAID.
    O
    "A state and federal partnership, Medicaid provides coverage for people with lower incomes, older people, people with disabilities, and some families and children."
    AND...
    "Each state operates a Medicaid program that provides health coverage for lower-income people, families and children, the elderly, and people with disabilities."
    FROM: http://www.healthcare.gov/using-insu...care/medicaid/

    I'll even break apart the definition's eligibility groups to further enlighten you:

    (1) lower-income people, = "Many states have expanded coverage, particularly for children, above the federal minimums. For many eligibility groups, income is calculated in relation to a percentage of the Federal Poverty Level (FPL). For example, 100% of the FPL for a family of four is $22,350 in 2011. The Federal Poverty Level is updated annually."
    FROM: http://www.medicaid.gov/Medicaid-CHI...igibility.html

    (2) families and children, = TANF (Temporary Assistance for Needy Families) is a comprehensive social welfare program, of which one benefit is public health care. Details for the State of Florida are below:
    "Florida TANF Progam Assistance Overview:
    TANF was created to help families in need. The TANF bureau works with families to help them become self sufficient.
    TANF's program features include:
    1. Assisting needy families so that children can be cared for in their own homes.
    2. Preventative measures for out of wedlock pregnancy.
    3. The encouragement of two parent families.
    4. Reduction of the dependency of needy parents by assisting with job preparation."

    FROM: http://www.tanf.us/florida.html

    (3) the elderly, = MEDICARE does not cover (long term care) NURSING HOME fees, it only covers nursing home fees that result from rehabilitation time (post-discharge) after a hospitalization/surgery. Nursing home care for one month in the State of Florida averages $7,786.66 per month depending on geographic location of a facility, which reflects the variance of cost of living expenditures in urban vs. rural areas.
    FROM: http://www.fhca.org/media_center/lon...th_care_facts/

    (4) people with disabilities = "For other groups, income standards are based on income or other non-financial criteria standards for other programs, such as the Supplemental Security Income (SSI) program."
    FROM: http://www.medicaid.gov/Medicaid-CHI...igibility.html

    It would be wise of you to know what your are griping about before you shoot your mouth off, seriously.
    YOUR FAIL = 2



    Your argument above is baseless.
    Read something factual for a change:

    "When economists and policymakers worry about the long-term fiscal crisis, what they’re mostly worried about is Medicare. That’s why a persistent idea during this fiscal cliff season is raising the Medicare eligibility age from 65 to 67.

    It’s an idea that appears superficially to have many virtues. Bringing the Medicare retirement age into line with the Social Security retirement age seems logical. The change is simple to describe to journalists and the public. And agreeing to reduce spending by keeping the program the same but limiting eligibility for it allows Democrats and Republicans to come together without resolving their fundamental disagreement over what Medicare should look like. As far as big picture entitlement reform goes, in other words, it’s relatively simple, straightforward, and easy to accomplish.

    Unfortunately it’s also a terrible idea that cloaks a staggering giveaway to hospitals, doctors, and other health care providers.

    There are two separate fiscal issues around the government and health care spending. One is the scope of the government’s responsibility for footing the bill for health care financing. The other is the price the government has to pay for the health care services it’s responsible for financing. Conservatives often imply that government health care spending is expensive because the government is somehow purchasing inefficiently or offering bloated benefits. This fits well with stereotypes about public sector waste and thus plays to popular prejudice. But it ignores the big reality about government health care purchases, which is their enormous scale. Medicare, in particular, is the biggest bulk buyer of health care services in the country, and so the fees it offers health care providers are much lower than what normal insurance companies pay.

    Why do providers put up with those stingy payments? For the same reason any vendor offers discounts to any bulk purchaser: volume. In big, rich cities, it’s not all that unusual for some providers to eschew Medicare patients and simply fill their dockets with better-paying private customers. But the vast majority of doctors, hospitals, imaging centers, and other providers need those patients. There are a lot of old people in America, and old people consume a lot of health care services. So when Medicare offers the health care industry a low-margin payment and huge scale, most providers have no choice but to say yes.

    That’s why raising the eligibility age is such a poor policy. Moving a patient off the Medicare rolls and onto the private market doesn’t just shift costs from the government to the patient. It also entails a massive increase in costs.

    The Kaiser Family Foundation has found that lifting the eligibility age from 65 to 67 would reduce federal spending by about $5.7 billion in its first year of full implementation. But that would be offset by $11.4billion in spending by other parties. That includes $3.7 billion in higher costs for 65- and 66 year-olds, $4.5 billion from employers through company-sponsored insurance, $0.7 billion from state governments, and $2.5 billion in higher average prices for third parties once younger seniors are shifted out of the Medicare risk-pool and into the general population.

    That’s an absurd means of saving the federal government money—akin to raising $12 billion in taxes and then setting half the money on fire. The only people who actually benefit from this shift are health care providers who get to charge higher prices to 65- and 66-year-olds.:


    FROM: http://www.slate.com/articles/busine...ould_cost.html

    YOUR FAIL = 3



    Medicare/Medicaid policies affect EVERY AMERICAN - period.
    People disregard the truth because they are apathetic, ignorant, stupid, indoctrinated, and/or corrupt.

    YOUR FAIL = 4



    What responsibilities do you speak of?
    Who are they people that have contributed significantly to society, in your opinion?
    Please define who the "lazy" people are.
    What is being undermined that none of us can afford to lose?

    Your arguments are devoid of fact and completely invalid.

    YOUR FAIL = 5

    P.S. I worked for the Florida Medicaid program for six years as a Senior Software Analyst, Project Manager, and IT Operations Manager. I've developed policy and implemented it for over a dozen public health programs. I managed the State's actuarial services contract for almost four years, so I know how the rates are calculated, and what the dollar amounts are for each category of service, in each region of the State, and for every major eligibility group. You are not in a good position to win any argument with me on this topic.



    -Halla74

    If you think that I was stating that the elderly was lazy you clearly misunderstood my quote. You are like a couple of others here in that you have too high of an opinion of yourself. Me, I know I'm clearly under qualified to argue the point but I dam sure hit a nerve somewhere.
    "May you live all the days of your life"

  4. #64
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bedeviled1 View Post
    Opportunity...
    See, you'd think that. That's what we're told all our lives: the Horatio Alger's rags to richest story. The ability to move up the economic ladder is sacred to Americans. It's one of the ways we justify the gross inequality in our country. Unfortunately the US has one of the worst rates of social mobility in the developed world. The Land of Opportunity thing is, to a decent degree, a myth.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  5. #65
    Senior Member bedeviled1's Avatar
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    I'm sorry I have to disagree. There are too many rags to riches stories out there, even in the last decade. What country would you say has more opportunity for success? I'm not saying the american dream is climbing the corporate ladder. To me that's not success. I'm talking about doing what you love and making a descent living at it. But its according how hard you are willing to work and how bad you want it. But hey, that's just me. Maybe I'm a bit too optomistic. Hey I seen a person making log furniture and said, I can do that . Couldn't make it fast enough.

  6. #66
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bedeviled1 View Post
    I'm sorry I have to disagree. There are too many rags to riches stories out there, even in the last decade. What country would you say has more opportunity for success? I'm not saying the american dream is climbing the corporate ladder. To me that's not success. I'm talking about doing what you love and making a descent living at it. But its according how hard you are willing to work and how bad you want it. But hey, that's just me. Maybe I'm a bit too optomistic. Hey I seen a person making log furniture and said, I can do that . Couldn't make it fast enough.
    Statistically, you'd be wrong. And I'm not talking about the corporate ladder. I'm talking about money, which may come from working behind a desk, behind a stove, behind a wrench, behind the wheel of a truck or any number of places.

    You have a better chance of making more money than your parents if you are born in Denmark, Australia, Norway, Finland or Canada than if you are born in the United States. A much better chance, anecdotal evidence to the contrary.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  7. #67
    Senior Member bedeviled1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    Statistically, you'd be wrong. And I'm not talking about the corporate ladder. I'm talking about money, which may come from working behind a desk, behind a stove, behind a wrench, behind the wheel of a truck or any number of places.

    You have a better chance of making more money than your parents if you are born in Denmark, Australia, Norway, Finland or Canada than if you are born in the United States. A much better chance, anecdotal evidence to the contrary.

    Australia sounds good, the rest too cold for me,,,
    "May you live all the days of your life"

  8. #68
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bedeviled1 View Post
    Australia sounds good, the rest too cold for me,,,
    Me too and, like, almost every animal in Australia is poisonous, I think. Plus, I doubt any of them would want my husband and I. He's a truck driver and I'm a housewife. Both in our forties and have had spotty healthcare over the course of our adult lives.

    Some of our kids are talking about Canada, though. I've lived in North Dakota and I don't think it would be so bad if you weren't broke. You could have a 4wheel drive vehicle, park it in a garage and hire a service to plow your driveway and shovel your walks. You could afford all the really nice boots, coats, gloves, etc that make that stuff bearable. Having to do things like drag your groceries home in a laundry basket strapped to a children's sled is what makes places like that suck the most, IMO. Your body really does acclimate to wherever you put it over the course of a few months, IME.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  9. #69
    Senior Member bedeviled1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    Me too and, like, almost every animal in Australia is poisonous, I think. Plus, I doubt any of them would want my husband and I. He's a truck driver and I'm a housewife. Both in our forties and have had spotty healthcare over the course of our adult lives.

    Some of our kids are talking about Canada, though. I've lived in North Dakota and I don't think it would be so bad if you weren't broke. You could have a 4wheel drive vehicle, park it in a garage and hire a service to plow your driveway and shovel your walks. You could afford all the really nice boots, coats, gloves, etc that make that stuff bearable. Having to do things like drag your groceries home in a laundry basket strapped to a children's sled is what makes places like that suck the most, IMO. Your body really does acclimate to wherever you put it over the course of a few months, IME.
    I think I could acclimate real quick to somewhere like Hawaii or something. We live in the mountains of Tennessee but my wife is very cold natured so her favorite place is Florida on the beach which we manage to visit maybe once a year. She is a shipping manager at a telecom supply co. and I run heavy equipment at a limestone mine. I couldnt move too far away since I have four Grandsons, unless I took em. I dont know if the poison things in Australia would be safe with them around.
    "May you live all the days of your life"

  10. #70
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    When I get into an American lift, or as you call it, an elevator, I start at Level 1, and progress up the Levels to the very top.

    On the other hand when I get into an Australian lift, I start off at Ground Level then move up to Level 1, then to Level 2 and so on. So our Ground Level is your Level 1.

    So we start everyone off equally at Ground Level with universal health care and with opportunity to move up to Level 1 and 2 and 3 to the top.

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