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  1. #11
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bedeviled1 View Post
    Priority, I guess that's the bottom line. I know my parents worked harder than I ever will. There's no way I would have had them work any longer. Are they getting more than they deserve or worked for? No way. Am I paying for their retirement? If so I vote to give them and your parents and a whole lot more a raise.
    Okay. I follow you.

    Then what happens to your children? And my children? The burden on them will be even greater, than what we are paying for our parents.

    I don't know any parent who wants to damn their own children into having to suffer tremendously to provide them with support. Most parents would rather die first, honestly. I don't want my kids unable to live because I'm unable to take care of myself.

    The program(s) need to be fixed, somehow. Right now, they are broken. Taking more money from the young to pay for the old might be sentimentally valid but it only increases the magnitude of later suffering. We need to reevaluate our expenditures as a country and decide how to pay for these things... or resolve them.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  2. #12
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Oh, it's being talked about.

    I think, if I remember what my husband told me correctly, there was a big crisis about funding social security when Reagan was in office. It was addressed so that the funding would be there, then the money was promptly borrowed for other stuff.

    One of the first steps we should take is to remove the cap on social security tax. Right now, you only pay social security tax on about the first $100K you earn. Medicare tax is capped at a different level, but it is also capped.

    Another thing we could do is to make a concerted effort to combat age discrimination in the workplace. It is real and it is rampant. There are many older Americans that would like to work, but employers often find ways to let them go from jobs they've held for years because they earn a higher wage and because their healthcare begins to be more expensive. They end up going to lower-paying part-time jobs which contributes to an impoverished retirement, I'd imagine.

    We need to address healthcare reform seriously, also. We have the most expensive healthcare system in the world and yet we have some of the poorest outcomes. We can improve care and reduce costs. Or I believe we can. If we can't we're one of the few countries in the developed world that cannot.

    We've attempted to address the problem of continued unwanted expensive treatment by encouraging patients to create living wills/advanced directives (aka death panels ).

    To some degree, we're just going to have to bite the bullet. There are a lot of Baby Boomers. There are not so many GenXers and Millennials. We're going to have to take care of them and it's going to impact our standard of living. The alternative is ugly in a way I hope not to see. The problem is temporary and will solve itself unless or until we have another major population boom or decline.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  3. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by bedeviled1 View Post
    It seems obvious to me that the good old USA is in a transition period. The American dream is sadly becoming less of a reality being replaced with rewards for being lazy in exchange for less and less liberty (freedom) which some would unwittingly exchange for support for their beliefs.
    The proposal to raise the age requirement for Medicare from 65 to 67 is a continuation of the undermining of the work ethic in this country. If this doesn't affect you or any of your family or friends it might be easy to disregard. But, when a people starts neglecting its responsibilities to people that have contributed significantly to society they are definately undermining something none of us can afford to lose.
    Explain this to me, you think the American dream is dead, which you dont define, rage a bit about, I presume I'm afraid since its not clear, entitlement and then you are opposed the raising fo the medicare entitlement age which would actually exclude people from claiming that entitlement?

    The US is becoming the union of vague but angry.

  4. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by bedeviled1 View Post
    I really am not qualified to reason how these things should be funded there just seems to be a lot of questions and if you take a slice across the board of people retired the majority is struggling to live. If you look at what was the say, bottom 90 percent I doubt it would be a pretty picture. We, the greatest nation on earth. Something is out of whack.
    My mother is a retired school teacher and was always the first to school and the last to leave and genuinely saved a lot of kids. My dad was a heavy equipment operator that worked , hard to within a few years of his death. My mother can barely make ends meet.
    I thought that your retirement was based on your income. Surely the social security system was set up to fund itself. If so what happened?was monies used somewhere else?
    I have paid social security for over thirty years but am only 54 . Why isn't anyone talking about welfare and all the entitlement programs or all the billions of dollars of foreign aid so forth and so on.
    So let me get this straight, you believe you are entitled to benefits and those benefits should be paid for by cutting other peoples benefits?

    I think there's a problem with people fighting over their slice of an increasingly diminishing pie, its scraps from the masters table.

    Bluffing that your economy is a success because you can prove most attractive to wealthy Oblomovs whose imperial wealth has been dwindling for a while has got to stop first, structural adjustments to produce, once again, mixed economies (multi-sectors and public and private utilities, companies, corporations) in which employment is possible rather than dependency upon benefits and finally the arresting of the power of the financial sector once and for all is what has to happen.

    Unfortunately most people think this is "socialism", its not socialism, in either the prejorative or positive sense of the word, its just the necessary adjustment for prosperity needed at this moment in time.

  5. #15
    Senior Member bedeviled1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Explain this to me, you think the American dream is dead, which you dont define, rage a bit about, I presume I'm afraid since its not clear, entitlement and then you are opposed the raising fo the medicare entitlement age which would actually exclude people from claiming that entitlement?

    The US is becoming the union of vague but angry.
    So...are you for or against raising the age of Medicare recipients?
    Are you saying entitlement has nothing in common with socialism?
    I know it must sound strange but I am actually concerned for the elderly in this country, of which I'm not a part of yet. Have you read all this thread? I seem to have been understood by others.
    Cafe said it better than I ever could and I fully agree with the post.
    I feel that senior citizens are not getting a fair shake. Many have to choose between medication and food or heat. People are out of touch , or don't care what many of them are going through. Need more money?…hell, take a little more from the old people. Why don't we just fire up the ovens.
    "May you live all the days of your life"

  6. #16
    Mojibake sprinkles's Avatar
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    Problems that are hard to solve have a strange habit of not being solved easily...

  7. #17
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bedeviled1 View Post
    So...are you for or against raising the age of Medicare recipients?
    Are you saying entitlement has nothing in common with socialism?
    I know it must sound strange but I am actually concerned for the elderly in this country, of which I'm not a part of yet. Have you read all this thread? I seem to have been understood by others.
    Cafe said it better than I ever could and I fully agree with the post.
    I feel that senior citizens are not getting a fair shake. Many have to choose between medication and food or heat. People are out of touch , or don't care what many of them are going through. Need more money?…hell, take a little more from the old people. Why don't we just fire up the ovens.
    Well, I have four kids and I've been poor most of my life. I wouldn't take food out of the mouths of children or the poor to fund medicare. Like Jennifer said, I would rather just get sick and die than force my kids to do without. I'd rather sell a kidney than even have any of my kids take out student loans.

    I'd cut defense spending and raise taxes on the rich and/or change our labor and trade policies so you couldn't work full-time and still be in poverty unless you had, like, a bazillion kids. Our kids are already going to pay for the Boomers, I don't think they should have to start paying before they are old enough to work via going hungry.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  8. #18
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Fire up the ovens?

    Well, we need to preserve our humanity, and people of all ages are still people.
    It's just a real humdinger of a problem to resolve... which is why it is still a problem.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  9. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by bedeviled1 View Post
    So...are you for or against raising the age of Medicare recipients?
    Are you saying entitlement has nothing in common with socialism?
    I know it must sound strange but I am actually concerned for the elderly in this country, of which I'm not a part of yet. Have you read all this thread? I seem to have been understood by others.
    Cafe said it better than I ever could and I fully agree with the post.
    I feel that senior citizens are not getting a fair shake. Many have to choose between medication and food or heat. People are out of touch , or don't care what many of them are going through. Need more money?…hell, take a little more from the old people. Why don't we just fire up the ovens.
    hahahaha!

    Yeah, I doubt its ovens time. I dont think that the elderly or merely retirees should sacrifice but I dont think anyone should, not in the US for sure, there's record low welfare and benefits there in contrast to the rest of the world. The place should be less of a tax haven and the rich should pay the same sort of taxes they do any place else.

    I dont think there's a link between entitlements and socialism, I think entitlements were used to buy people off who'd otherwise be interested in socialism. Entitlements have probably made socialism impossible at this stage.

  10. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Fire up the ovens?

    Well, we need to preserve our humanity, and people of all ages are still people.
    It's just a real humdinger of a problem to resolve... which is why it is still a problem.
    I dont think its difficult, tax the rich, its not complex even but it'd take will and a popular support that's not there.

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