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View Poll Results: Are you concerned that stand your ground will be repealed?

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  • Yes

    2 33.33%
  • No

    4 66.67%
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  1. #1
    Senior Member The Great One's Avatar
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    Default First Treyvon, now Jordon Davis

    http://www.omaha.com/article/20121130/AP09/311309955

    I'm sure you've all heard about the Treyvon Martin case. Now in Jacksonville, Florida (my town) we have a very similar case going on. It's getting so big that it's already going national. Last Friday, there were 4 teens parked by a gas station. They were blasting loud music and were asked by a man named, "Michael Dunn" to turn it down. According to Dunn, they then pulled a gun on him and then he pulled out a gun of his own and shot at the van, and drove off. Little did he know, he wound up killing one of the teens in the car named, "Jordon Davis". Michael Dunn is trying to claim a "stand your ground" defense, but the police can't find any evidence of the teens ever having a gun.

    Now the real thing that I'm worried about is that with the Treyvon case, and now this that is also in Florida, many people are now trying to get the "stand your ground" law repealed. The reprecussions of doing this would be awful. What are your thoughts on the matter?

    @DiscoBiscuit you may be interested in this thread.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    I think its awful that its been used in this manner, I mean that the stand your ground law is surely not meant to serve as an excuse for anyone who behaves like a later day gunslinger?

    Have you seen the videos on youtube which feature a really aggressive old guy confronting some kids who are skate boarding and lift a small bush out of the ground and use it to perform jumps, then later confronting a group of young people again but coming into conflict with a bigger member of their group who pushes him around instead?

    I watched that material and thought that's all pretty bad and there's not the need for it to have escalated quite like it all did but at least there's not guns involved, I could see how they could be brought into it all in slightly different or changed contexts, there are much worse districts anywhere in which people are armed and ready to drawn down on each other over nothing.

  3. #3
    Senior Member The Great One's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I think its awful that its been used in this manner, I mean that the stand your ground law is surely not meant to serve as an excuse for anyone who behaves like a later day gunslinger?

    Have you seen the videos on youtube which feature a really aggressive old guy confronting some kids who are skate boarding and lift a small bush out of the ground and use it to perform jumps, then later confronting a group of young people again but coming into conflict with a bigger member of their group who pushes him around instead?

    I watched that material and thought that's all pretty bad and there's not the need for it to have escalated quite like it all did but at least there's not guns involved, I could see how they could be brought into it all in slightly different or changed contexts, there are much worse districts anywhere in which people are armed and ready to drawn down on each other over nothing.
    Well, if the teens really didn't have a gun, then what the man did was awful. However, I'm not buying the media's lies that Treyvon was innocent. That damn kid was a thug. I've done my research on Treyvon.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Great One View Post
    Well, if the teens really didn't have a gun, then what the man did was awful. However, I'm not buying the media's lies that Treyvon was innocent. That damn kid was a thug. I've done my research on Treyvon.
    I dont know about the Treyvon case in enough detail, its an interesting question because on the one hand I dont think that being a thug should be sufficient basis to be summarily executed and often the people who perform these same sort of "righteous kill" hits are dodgy themselves and searching for a pretext. Its not all like the new york subway shooter I read about a while back who defended himself on a train with a gun following his mugging once or twice which gave rise to legal support for stand your ground style actions.

    This situation sounds a bit strange because it would appear that this guy popped caps while retreating and drove off, that's not exactly standing your ground. Although who is to know really? It could have been a gang of hoods and he's challenged them and they've pretended to be carrying a weapon, a dangerous thing to do when you're bluffing and the person you are in a confrontation with is not but that would not surprise me and the failure to anticipate real violence wouldnt either.

    A lot of hoods really dont expect to be victims in the same way that they victimise others and most of the worst violence that I have known of is usually when someone has acted in such a way which threatens to be just such a "game changer" and then wittingly or unwittingly solicits even greater violence than the same hoods in the first place really had planned or thought about.

  5. #5
    As Long As It Takes.... Redbone's Avatar
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    I would think that if they had a gun, they would have opened fire once he did. Especially with it already being pointed at him like he claimed?

    Probably just another pissed off person with a pistol that decided to use it.

  6. #6
    IRL is not real Cimarron's Avatar
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    Yeah, unfortunately, Florida's going to build up a bad reputation with these cases so close together, a reputation that I really don't think it deserves much more or less than other states in the region. That is, if it becomes a big story after all.
    You can't spell "justice" without ISTJ.

  7. #7
    Senior Member The Great One's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I dont know about the Treyvon case in enough detail, its an interesting question because on the one hand I dont think that being a thug should be sufficient basis to be summarily executed and often the people who perform these same sort of "righteous kill" hits are dodgy themselves and searching for a pretext. Its not all like the new york subway shooter I read about a while back who defended himself on a train with a gun following his mugging once or twice which gave rise to legal support for stand your ground style actions.

    This situation sounds a bit strange because it would appear that this guy popped caps while retreating and drove off, that's not exactly standing your ground. Although who is to know really? It could have been a gang of hoods and he's challenged them and they've pretended to be carrying a weapon, a dangerous thing to do when you're bluffing and the person you are in a confrontation with is not but that would not surprise me and the failure to anticipate real violence wouldnt either.

    A lot of hoods really dont expect to be victims in the same way that they victimise others and most of the worst violence that I have known of is usually when someone has acted in such a way which threatens to be just such a "game changer" and then wittingly or unwittingly solicits even greater violence than the same hoods in the first place really had planned or thought about.
    The kid was continually slamming George Zimmerman's head into the concrete and then Zimmerman shot Treyvon before the kid killed him. The news wants to paint this guy as a little angel, but he was quite the opposite.

    http://abcnews.go.com/US/george-zimm...ry?id=16616864

  8. #8
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Great One View Post
    The kid was continually slamming George Zimmerman's head into the concrete and then Zimmerman shot Treyvon before the kid killed him. The news wants to paint this guy as a little angel, but he was quite the opposite.

    http://abcnews.go.com/US/george-zimm...ry?id=16616864
    Do you have any evidence of that that doesn't come from the guy who killed him?

  9. #9
    Senior Member The Great One's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Do you have any evidence of that that doesn't come from the guy who killed him?
    http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505263_1...efense-claims/

    (CBS News) Medical records showing that George Zimmerman was treated for a fractured nose and cuts to the back of his head after fatally shooting 17-year-old Trayvon Martin will likely bolster Zimmerman's argument that Martin attacked him, CBS News legal analyst Jack Ford said on "CBS This Morning" Wednesday. The records came to light Tuesday. CBS News has also confirmed they show that Zimmerman had a pair of black eyes when he was examined by a doctor Feb. 27, the day after he shot Martin in a gated Florida community. Zimmerman, who has claimed self-defense, faces a charge of second-degree murder in the shooting. "This now allows the defense to show up in the courtroom, let George Zimmerman tell his story and bring in a medical expert that says, 'Black and blue under the eyes, broken nose, cut on the back of the head,'" said Ford, "and the defense can argue that's consistent with George Zimmerman being attacked by Trayvon Martin, and then the Stand Your Ground defense comes into play." Special Section: Trayvon Martin Shooting Report: Trayvon Martin gun range targets sold online Trayvon mom: Re-examine "Stand Your Ground" laws Ford, a former prosecutor, said that the medical report's revelations, while not good for the prosecution, don't exactly torpedo their case. "Here's what you're going to get: I'm sure the prosecution is going to say, 'Hey, you know what this shows? This shows that Trayvon Martin was fighting for his life because he was attacked by George Zimmerman here,'" said Ford, "and the defense is going to say, 'That's not so at all, and we've got the medical testimony to show it.'""](CBS News) Medical records showing that George Zimmerman was treated for a fractured nose and cuts to the back of his head after fatally shooting 17-year-old Trayvon Martin will likely bolster Zimmerman's argument that Martin attacked him, CBS News legal analyst Jack Ford said on "CBS This Morning" Wednesday. The records came to light Tuesday. CBS News has also confirmed they show that Zimmerman had a pair of black eyes when he was examined by a doctor Feb. 27, the day after he shot Martin in a gated Florida community. Zimmerman, who has claimed self-defense, faces a charge of second-degree murder in the shooting. "This now allows the defense to show up in the courtroom, let George Zimmerman tell his story and bring in a medical expert that says, 'Black and blue under the eyes, broken nose, cut on the back of the head,'" said Ford, "and the defense can argue that's consistent with George Zimmerman being attacked by Trayvon Martin, and then the Stand Your Ground defense comes into play." Special Section: Trayvon Martin Shooting Report: Trayvon Martin gun range targets sold online Trayvon mom: Re-examine "Stand Your Ground" laws Ford, a former prosecutor, said that the medical report's revelations, while not good for the prosecution, don't exactly torpedo their case. "Here's what you're going to get: I'm sure the prosecution is going to say, 'Hey, you know what this shows? This shows that Trayvon Martin was fighting for his life because he was attacked by George Zimmerman here,'" said Ford, "and the defense is going to say, 'That's not so at all, and we've got the medical testimony to show it.'"

  10. #10
    Temporal Mechanic. Lexicon's Avatar
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    Simple lesson: Impulsive [or compulsive, in some cases] shitbags should not have access to guns in the first place.

    Big sigh. Not surprised. Humans will continue to be.. human.
    03/23 06:06:58 EcK: lex
    03/23 06:06:59 EcK: lex
    03/23 06:21:34 Nancynobullets: LEXXX *sacrifices a first born*
    03/23 06:21:53 Nancynobullets: We summon yooouuu
    03/23 06:29:07 Lexicon: I was sleeping!



    04/25 04:20:35 Patches: Don't listen to lex. She wants to birth a litter of kittens. She doesnt get to decide whats creepy

    02/16 23:49:38 ygolo: Lex is afk
    02/16 23:49:45 Cimarron: she's doing drugs with Jack

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